posted 08-20-2003 02:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theseeker:
whaddaya' trying to replace me ?

that's not very nice...

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Replace you?

Where would Abbot have been without Costello?

Martin without Lewis...

Rowan without Martin...

Each and every post is appreciated.

posted 08-20-2003 04:58 AM            

We remain on opposite sides.

Wouldn't it be boring if nobody had a different opinion?

Heck; we could talk into a tape recorder to hear our own opinions.

At least, during the heated arguments, we learn from each other.

But really:
Apply to Bivings et al!
They could use some good people.

Why not post what you already believe and get paid for it?

It really is a very comfortable director's chair.

posted 08-20-2003 08:32 AM            

btw more on topic...there's a wolf in sheep's clothing cruising this board...

posted 08-22-2003 01:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theseeker:
...more on topic...there's a wolf in sheep's clothing cruising this board...

beware

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AWWWW!
Ya did read the post beginning this topic!

Re: "wolves in sheeps' clothing"
There are many "'fake citizens' posting on internet list servers"

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/the-doors/break-on-through.html

>...several public relations agencies secretly building a parallel world on the web....

Bivings http://ngin.tripod.com/deceit10.html http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13236 www.weeklydig.com/dig/content/3601.aspx

Berman & Co http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Berman_%26_Co. www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q1/ddam.html www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2001Q1/berman1.html

Nichols Dezenhall http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5246

Competitive Enterprise Institute http://www.namebase.org/xcol/Competitive-Enterprise-Institute.html

GOP Team Leader/ Bivings www.bivings.com/news/gopteamleader.html
www.breakyourchains.org/gop_brownshirts.htm

posted 08-22-2003 01:39 AM            

Hell sign me up, I can stir shit with the best of 'em

posted 08-22-2003 01:55 AM            

well flattery will go a long way shitoga

in the loosest interpretation shitoga is right right...I don't know if P/V has had a look at the "giacom" deal in the science forum...that issue only has a few days before something will manifest itself...it has the appearance of an individual deliberately fabricating lies to hack their machines...

and hell maybe your right P/V and a few extra bones in the old wallet wouldn't hurt...

is a paycheck selling out ? or hey how do you sell out to your side ?

OOOOO !

posted 08-23-2003 06:46 AM            

I've listed several PR companies which employ people to advocate for pay.

A person who believes 'the RNC can do no wrong' could be a GOP Team Leader & benefit as a result.

I once reaped those rewards myself.

Like 'chicken-soup'/ it may not help- but it won't hoit!

posted 09-16-2003 11:19 PM            

Its just a matter of turning off the brainwash box.

posted 12-17-2003 11:41 PM            

>Originally posted by Show-Me Truth:

posted 12-19-2003 02:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lies..all lies:
Do you really believe that there are professional debunker organizations, or did this all come in a dream to you?

---

You might try reading the first post in this topic.
Visit the RNC website and sign up as a Team Leader.

Your posts indicate you might understand this:
Roger Ailes personally gave me my director's chair.

I was trained by an RNC computer guy.

At the campaign for a Republican Senator.
"Who here has a computer?"
we who raised our hands were taken into another room and taught how
"...to overwhelm the media and make it look like there more of us than there really are."

Using my modem, I could be the first caller to any call-in show.
I had lists of numbers, times when call-in shows dump all callers,
and many times got calls from rightwing hosts who had me wait online, primed in advance with "talking points" to discredit and demoralize Liberal guests.

I know for a fact there are paid PR professionals posting on the internet.
The RNC says so.
Bivings brags about it and so do other professional web PR firms.

I know for a fact there are Team Leaders giving out 'talking points' to rightwing volunteers. (the RNC says so)

& I was once one of them.

Read that first post.

Become an RNC Team Leader,
or join me in honoring truth above partisan propaganda.

posted 12-19-2003 11:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Show-Me Truth:
I wonder how many fake citizens it will take to sway public opinion.

Professional debunkers, you bet. The internet is a big highway of communication and those with lots of funding can put 'citizens' out there on the airwaves in an attempt to manipulate.

Beware the "debunkers". The are masters of obfuscation ( or at least masters in training). They are like the chemplanes spraying out a 'fog' to hide the sun. How appropriate.

SmT

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It usually takes a dedicated three shift team.
usually in groups of three per shift/ three screen names;
to dominate a forum.
Each PR poster can work several forums per shift.

the standard recipe is:
One (in-your-face) confrontational
One reasoned and even friendly
One wildcard (often an unpaid volunteer or in training)

when you find this recipe of pro-administration debunkers at any forum
You have recognized the web-of-deceit

Chemtrails and other underhanded schemes must be constantly debunked, to prevent an uprising by regular people.

NOTE the often religious zeal the PR debunkers show in their support for the administration:
"Religion is what keeps the poor from killing the rich" -N. Bonaparte.

posted 12-20-2003 12:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shatoga:
the standard recipe is:
One (in-your-face) confrontational
One reasoned and even friendly
One wildcard (often an unpaid volunteer or in training)

when you find this recipe of pro-administration debunkers at any forum
You have recognized the web-of-deceit

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posted 12-20-2003 11:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by JerseyBluEyz:
Shatoga: when you say one is a wild card - what does that mean? That's different than an in-your-face confrontational personality? If it's the same principle as in playing cards (meaning anything goes) then how can you tell who the third party is?

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"wildcard" >anything goes<
The third person almost always agrees with the first two but varies from insulting to reasonable, from confrontational to friendly.
Usually it's a volunteer, or several volunteers.

PRofessionals
PR professionals sometimes use a group quick response approach.
Various committee members dominate at different times and topics, in composing a response, so the style and temper vary almost constantly.

Once the committee learns what works at each website, they stick with the successful formula.

eg: 'adhomineum attacks' and 'strawman arguments' or off topic 'diversions' may drive people away from topics seeking truth about 9/11.
Fewer people reading and learning the truth is the goal.
Ridicule, personal attacks, and insults serve the same purpose: to reduce or prevent discussion of the topic.

Volunteers
Similarly to the comittee PR aproach.
"wildcard" >anything goes<
Volunteers come and go but the screen name is worn by different people, at different times.

A smart Team Leader will advise mercurial volunteers in how to present the "Talking Points" most effectively;
But cannot mold them all into having the same style.
Nor is it effective to just 'parrot' the 'talking points'.
Sooner or later somebody notices numerous voices using almost exactly the same words on the same subject.
eg:
type into any search engine the 'talking point':
"Bush is a great leader"

and you will get links to dozens (if not hundreds) of articles editorials and posts all following the same outline!

The subject will vary and the style will vary, but you can safely bet the farm there was a "talking points" outline followed in composing it.

Between paid PR hacks and zealous true believers.
How to spot:
The volunteer will be often quite zealous, but the professional can calmly type in responses without becoming emotional.
After all, it's only a job!

PR companies can even assign professionals who follow a script with the ability to mimic various styles.
Visit links in this topic and read those companies bragging about how effective their internet advocacy is.

Since the Bivings/RNC joint venture,
the Web of Deceit has become big business.

Put yourself mentally into my shoes when I was a part of that Web of Deceit.

Our Senator could hope for zealous supporters to advocate for him in newspaper editorials, call-in radio and tv shows, and on the internet.
Or he could hire professionals to churn out a predictable product.

He chose both avenues, with the RNC professionals training volunteers and those trained volunteers supervising/training other volunteers...
I went from volunteer to campaign coordinator, frequent requested guest on call in shows, to TeamLeader..

quote:

---

One woman with a very distinctive voice used to call up as a
(fill in the blank/whomever the RNC wanted to discredit)
-As a Perot support she raved like a maniac.
-As a Clinton supporter she sounded pure commie/socialist.
-As a Buchannon supporter she sounded like a nazi paranoid.
or-
-As a Bush supporter she was a calm and reasonable charming little old lady.

She was a loyal secretary for a (R) Senator, all the while.

---

Back to recruiting and training volunteers.
Which goes on at this very minute via the RNC website's link to Team Leaders:
http://www.gopteamleader.com/about.asp

quote:

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>Encourage participation in the political process by building your own Team of activists who you can share information with. <
>Write your local and federal representatives, while accessing official RNC talking points from GOPTeamLeader.com;<

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Tip:
How to spot all three!

Check selected topics' "Talking Points"

Note date

and notice which members posted new topics and comments to existing topics nearly identical with the talking points.
(on or shortly after that date)

Those are 'Team Members' in most cases.
(often the 'wildcard') to which I refer.
The paid PR hacks will often be more prompt in posting "Talking Points" than unpaid volunteers.

posted 04-21-2004 05:30 PM            

Now, I see Letxa as a debunker. Notice his new post, notice how he goaded mojo of radarmatrix! Notice how he goaded all of us and immediately responded to a inquiring student regarding chemtrails and how he invalidated the subject and all of us who know about it. With his new post, he's trying to portray himself as innocent American citizen finding only good in America and is essentially baiting and trying to distract from our work here. He knows he has us set up. Please go to the administration forum and post in favor of tightening our rules of membership and please help convince Mech and the other moderators to ban him. He's so disruptive and able to harrass others without "flaming" that I wouldn't doubt he's a paid debunker and if he's not -- he's a disrespectful ass. Notice his latest response to a weather report in CA on planes spreading chaff -- which was removed fromt the weather site soon after it was posted! It's in CT Science I think. At any rate, though you may not know it, Letxa has baited, goaded, and disrupted this board for too long! Please help unify our board and make a statement in the Administrators Forum!

posted 04-22-2004 09:14 AM            

U.S. Military Computer Systems Used to Post Disinformation on AntiPolygraph.org
by George W. Maschke
22 May 2004

It appears that the polygraph countermeasure information provided on AntiPolygraph.org (see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector) so alarms some in the United States Government that they have taken to posting disinformation on the AntiPolygraph.org message board, which is uncensored. (Because of the unreliablity of lie detector "testing," which has no scientific basis and results in many truthful persons being falsely branded as liars, many truthful persons choose to use countermeasures to protect themselves against the risk of a false positive outcome.)

Although the polygraph community has not demonstrated that it has any reliable technique for the detection of countermeasures (indeed, a public challenge by Dr. Drew C. Richardson has gone over two years without takers), there is an aphorism amongst polygraphers that, "if a reaction seems to good to be true, it probably is." That is, unusually strong reactions to "control" questions may be taken as an indication of attempted countermeasures.

On 21 April 2004, a person using the pseudonym "PolySucks" posted a message on the AntiPolygraph.org message board claiming to have passed a polygraph examination by applying countermeasures until "it made [his/her] butt hurt." Thirty-two minutes later, a person using the pseudonym "Cancerman" posted another message (from the same IP address!) agreeing with PolySucks' post, claiming to have also used countermeasures to pass a polygraph examination, and urging readers who choose to employ countermeasures to "Hold it Long, Hold it Strong!!!"

As it turns out, the IP address from which both posts originated resolves to "yongsan-cache.korea.army.mil." Yongsan Army Garrison in Korea hosts the 19th Military Police Battalion (Criminal Investigative Division), which has a polygraph section, and it seems likely that the posts by "PolySucks" and "Cancerman" are deliberate disinformation posted by a military polygraph examiner.

A similar incident occurred on 10 March 2004, not long after AntiPolygraph.org placed on-line a Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DoDPI) document (909kb PDF) that explains in detail the procedure used by many law enforcement agencies to screen applicants. A poster using the pseudonym "Policeman" claimed to have had a very positive polygraph experience when applying for a job with a police department "in the Eastern US," stating that he had considered using countermeasures but rejected the idea because he did not want to "do anything that would screw up [his] chances." "Policeman" concluded his post with the assertion that he is now "certain that the test works just like the examiner told [him] it would."

But "Policeman's" message was posted from an IP address that resolves to "webcache.jackson.army.mil." Fort Jackson, South Carolina is the home of DoDPI (whose polygraph technique for screening law enforcement applicants AntiPolygraph.org had made public). After this was pointed out, "Policeman" never posted again, and his posting seems likely to be a forgery by a polygrapher at DoDPI intended to promote confidence in polygraph screening (a proceduce that the National Academy of Sciences found to be without validity).

It is truly sad that U.S. Government employees would resort to playing such games in an attempt to mislead the public that they are supposed to serve.

posted 04-22-2004 10:17 AM            

THANKS!!!!

Would you also read the administrator's forum (..suggestions for Mods..)and post your opinion on the matter of tightening membership agreement and banning of members? ?? Pretty please?

It's pretty straight forward and logical!

Thanks!

bc

posted 04-22-2004 03:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shatoga:
View from the other side of the mirror?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000063.html#1

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posted 04-25-2004 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by JerseyBluEyz:
Are you saying that the post by Coley is not legitimate?

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IMHO the posts by "Coley" are quite legitimate.

When I posted as "shatoga" at Japan today:

The person who'd kindly paid for my web access had been surnamed "Coley", and had died in the Georgia prison system.
(so had no further arguement with my political stance)

His name neatly fitted one of my favorite actors:
"Ernest Borgnine ..was .. Coley Trimble"
in "*Bad Day at Black Rock"
A movie that expresses quite well "chickenhawks" like the rightwingers I often debate on the web.

Having found a moderator/administrator
at that forum was attempting to do me harm by posting personal details of that deceased benefactor;
(like the chickenhawks in that movie* BTW)
I quit visiting Japan today.

Also quit visiting because:
Most members there are rightwing Republican Americans.
The moderator/administrator (or some extremely gifted hacker) was modifying my posts and also posting with my member name.

As the origional post in this topic indicates,
The Web of Deceit PR companies employ gifted hackers.

One goal of the web of deceit is to bully their opponents into silence.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047849/
>this film is a damnation to those who stand back and refuse to take a stand against wrong doing.< http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000308/