posted 03-07-2003 02:01 AM            

P/V, had a talk with my oldest about the draft...it scared her...25, thirty minute talk with a teen ager...get the gravity ?

now my boy's ward~drobe consists of 1/2 military type clothing and the other fire truck moto-cross type stuff...luvs superman batman goku guns gi joe anything military and can almost recite sgt.barry saddler's "green berets" word for word....

he'd go in a heartbeat and my daughter should not be forced to go...

and that is my position on the draft....

posted 03-07-2003 09:27 AM            

America is being invaded from within, and it's not anti-war protestors, Mech, or Swamp Gas.

The U.S. military is right now serving ExxonMobile. And Lockheed Martin. And is protecting, unbeknownst to it, our grip on power brokering in the Middle East.

Which naturally might raise the question, What, then, is actually protecting America's freedom? What forces are guaranteeing free speech? Protecting your civil liberties?

It's you. It's millions of independent, resistant voices, in chat rooms and e-mail boxes and magazines and on Web sites all over the nation and the world.

Can't agree with you on the militarization of America. Let the people who want to serve do it, and keep the draft deactivated. Some people are artists, scientists, and skaters. Others are warriors. Leave it at that. We need them both, on occasion. We just don't want to confront China and Russia. BAD IDEA. VERY BAD IDEA.

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today."

Theodore Roosevelt...1906

posted 03-07-2003 12:04 PM            

Especially the part about our Military being used by the global elite to do their dirtywork....sadly..you hit that nail right on head.

But most people who choose not to see this will simply call you "unpatriotic" or "unamerican" when in all actuallity...it's more like the other way around.

I won't send my sons or daughters or anyone elses kids into a war for profit and globalist interests...period.

That's not an America I want to be a part of.
We need to kick THOSE traitors out of OUR Constitutional republic.

posted 03-07-2003 09:15 PM            

I recently recommended to a friend with an out of control teen, that the kid could benefit from Marine training.

I volunteered while many others were dodging the draft. (1969)
Many of my HS classmates became cops to evade the draft, others stayed in college until the Nam was over.
My mother got a position in the National Guard arranged for me; and got upset when I enlisted and volunteered for Nam.
All those phone calls wasted!

I support a draft of all 18-21 year olds, for national service.
Military service is only a part of national service.
They could teach, mentor troubled kids, nurses aids, assistants to paramedics, firefighters, police, etc.
A little time spent answering JFK's "What can I do for America?" would benefit all of us.
A little less self serving greed/IMHO.

After my discharge i joined V V A W and counseled draft dodgers and deserters to give themselves up and rejoin American society.
I cut deals with former CO's so people could be americans again.

I don't believe either draft dodgers or deserters should be President.

I believe draft dodgers should at least have the courage to demonstrate publicly against the war they evade and risk getting their heads busted by draft dodging hawks.

I believe those who quietly pull strings and dodge hazerdous service should be prohibited from ever voting on any war measure, for the rest of their lives.

posted 03-08-2003 04:51 AM               

"There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents... There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class... The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendency."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:396

"Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really against one’s country. They do not distinguish between acts against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more victims to the executioner than the former, because real treasons are rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all countries."
--Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792.

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

and my personal favorite...

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320

posted 03-08-2003 08:16 AM            

I joined the military because I believed in defending the constitution and I had no other way to go to college. I'm definately glad I went through it.A great experience and a real sense of teamwork.. Be that as it may...I still don't think it's for everyone. I certainly don't want someone who is talented illustrator carrying an m-16 for example. It should be voluntary. People should WANT to serve..not be forced into it.

Hey Shatoga?

posted 03-08-2003 09:45 AM            

Your right Mech, the military isn't for everyone. If you stop and think about it though, if kids coming out of high school go right into a military service of their choice for just 2 years, they will learn discipline, teamwork, and how important it is to pay attention to detail in any task. They will also get some great educational benefits in the deal too. For some poor families, it would be a great way to send their children to college. Maybe even make it so every young person who serves could come out of it with an associates degree. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think it would hurt kids who are physically able to serve their country for 2 years active duty, and yes that includes my daughters.

posted 03-08-2003 11:47 AM            

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320

posted 03-08-2003 05:31 PM            

FL, Mech, PV;

I think I covered two Presidents in my comments.

The fact that we disagree and still are free to post is what used to make America the greatest country in the world.

"We all love our country: We all believe in our system of government; We're just arguing over the details." Jack Kemp

(who played QB for the Buffalo Bills while exempt from the Nam era draft because he had a bad leg/ damn- even the ones I like are hypocrites!)

My definition of draft service does not mean military only.
Peace Corps and Americorps were both service to America, but non-military.