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Topic: Iraqi children - war sacrifices? | Topic page views:
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Hoople
Senior Member

Charleston, Ar 167 posts, Dec 2001
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posted 03-09-2003 02:27 PM
What's it really worth to remove Saddam?On the day we invade Iraq the Pentagon has a strategy they call "shock and awe" which will be enacted the first 48 hrs of the invasion. This is where our military will launch 3,000 guided missles on Iraq. Now think about the "shock and awe" strategy when you read 13 year old Charlotte Aldebron's speech given at a peace rally in Maine. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15291 What About the Iraqi Children? By Charlotte Aldebron, WireTap March 3, 2003 The following is a transcript of a speech given by now 13-year-old Charlotte Aldebron at a peace rally in Maine. When people think about bombing Iraq, they see a picture in their heads of Saddam Hussein in a military uniform, or maybe soldiers with big black mustaches carrying guns, or the mosaic of George Bush Senior on the lobby floor of the Al-Rashid Hotel with the word "criminal." But guess what? More than half of Iraq's 24 million people are children under the age of 15. That's 12 million kids. Kids like me. Well, I'm almost 13, so some are a little older, and some a lot younger, some boys instead of girls, some with brown hair, not red. But kids who are pretty much like me just the same. So take a look at me – a good long look. Because I am what you should see in your head when you think about bombing Iraq. I am what you are going to destroy.
If I am lucky, I will be killed instantly, like the three hundred children murdered by your "smart" bombs in a Baghdad bomb shelter on February 16, 1991. The blast caused a fire so intense that it flash-burned outlines of those children and their mothers on the walls; you can still peel strips of blackened skin – souvenirs of your victory – from the stones.
But maybe I won't be lucky and I'll die slowly, like 14-year-old Ali Faisal, who right now is in the "death ward" of the Baghdad children's hospital. He has malignant lymphoma – cancer – caused by the depleted uranium in your Gulf War missiles. Or maybe I will die painfully and needlessly like18-month-old Mustafa, whose vital organs are being devoured by sand fly parasites. I know it's hard to believe, but Mustafa could be totally cured with just $25 worth of medicine, but there is none of this medicine because of your sanctions.
Or maybe I won't die at all but will live for years with the psychological damage that you can't see from the outside, like Salman Mohammed, who even now can't forget the terror he lived through with his little sisters when you bombed Iraq in 1991. Salman's father made the whole family sleep in the same room so that they would all survive together, or die together. He still has nightmares about the air raid sirens.
Or maybe I will be orphaned like Ali, who was three when you killed his father in the Gulf War. Ali scraped at the dirt covering his father's grave every day for three years calling out to him, "It's all right Daddy, you can come out now, the men who put you here have gone away." Well, Ali, you're wrong. It looks like those men are coming back.
Or I maybe I will make it in one piece, like Luay Majed, who remembers that the Gulf War meant he didn't have to go to school and could stay up as late as he wanted. But today, with no education, he tries to live by selling newspapers on the street.
This is not an adventure movie or a fantasy or a video game. This is reality for children in Iraq. Imagine that these are your children – or nieces or nephews or neighbors. Imagine your son screaming from the agony of a severed limb, but you can't do anything to ease the pain or comfort him. Imagine your daughter crying out from under the rubble of a collapsed building, but you can't get to her. Imagine your children wandering the streets, hungry and alone, after having watched you die before their eyes.
This is not an adventure movie or a fantasy or a video game. This is reality for children in Iraq. Recently, an international group of researchers went to Iraq to find out how children there are being affected by the possibility of war. Half the children they talked to said they saw no point in living any more. Even really young kids knew about war and worried about it. One 5-year-old, Assem, described it as "guns and bombs and the air will be cold and hot and we will burn very much." Ten-year-old Aesar had a message for President Bush: he wanted him to know that "A lot of Iraqi children will die. You will see it on TV and then you will regret."
Back in elementary school I was taught to solve problems with other kids not by hitting or name-calling, but by talking and using "I" messages. The idea of an "I" message was to make the other person understand how bad his or her actions made you feel, so that the person would sympathize with you and stop it. Now I am going to give you an "I" message. Only it's going to be a "We" message. "We" as in all the children in Iraq who are waiting helplessly for something bad to happen. "We" as in the children of the world who don't make any of the decisions but have to suffer all the consequences. "We" as in those whose voices are too small and too far away to be heard.
We feel scared when we don't know if we'll live another day.
We feel angry when people want to kill us or injure us or steal our future.
We feel sad because all we want is a mom and a dad who we know will be there the next day.
And, finally, we feel confused – because we don't even know what we did wrong.
Charlotte Aldebron, 13, attends Cunningham Middle School in Presque Isle, Maine. Comments may be sent to her mom, Jillian Aldebron at aldebron@ainop.com.

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim 3297 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-09-2003 04:30 PM
mis-informed liberal crap...someone slap that girl mother for the lies she's encouraging...iraqi children have their own prison ! they are mamed abused and starved...list goes on and on... for the childrens sake maybe saddam should move his artillery away from schools eh ? cracks me up how you people believe propaganda like you do... real news: U.N. Blasts Iraq for 'Widespread Torture' (December 7, 2000) By Human Rights Alliance UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) -- The U.N. General Assembly condemned the government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on Monday for using "widespread terror" and systematic torture to repress dissent and urged it to abide by international human rights treaties. The vote was 102 in favor and three against with 60 abstentions. The "no" votes were cast by Libya, Mauritania and Sudan. Last year's vote on a similar resolution was 100-3-52. The resolution condemned "the systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights" that resulted in what it said was an "all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror." It also condemned "widespread, systematic torture and the maintaining of decrees prescribing cruel and inhuman punishment as a penalty for offenses." Iraq makes frequent use of the death penalty, as well as summary and arbitrary executions, political killings and enforced or involuntary disappearances, the resolution said. The Iraqi government also suppresses freedom of thought, expression, information, association, assembly and movement through fear of arrest, imprisonment, execution, expulsion, house demolitions, and other sanctions, the resolution added. It condemned the repression of opponents of the regime both inside Iraq and abroad, saying they faced threats, intimidation and harassment. The General Assembly appealed to the Iraqi government to abide by international human rights treaties and force the military and security forces to respect international law. It also called for sweeping judicial reforms that would make the judiciary independent and punish any extrajudicial killings. Political opposition should not be subjected to intimidation and repression, it said. Iraq should respect the human rights of all ethnic and religious groups, the resolution continued. It urged the government "to cease immediately its repressive practices aimed at the Iraqi Kurds, Assyrians and Turkmen" who have been subject to deportations. It also said authorities should stop immediately draining the southern marsh areas, where Muslim Shiites live, saying such actions had "provoked environmental destruction and a deterioration of the situation of the civilian population." The General Assembly urged Iraq to permit a visit by a human rights rapporteur, Cypriot diplomat Andreas Mavrommatis, who has compiled a report from evidence collected in other countries. His survey, released in October, cites an Iraqi defector, who alleged receiving videotape showing the rape of a female family member in a bid to persuade him to stop opposition activities. "The most disturbing of the recent complaints related to the special rapporteur concerns harassment, intimidation and threats against the families of Iraqi opposition members residing abroad to induce them to stop their activities," Mavrommatis wrote.

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Hoople
Senior Member

Charleston, Ar 167 posts, Dec 2001
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posted 03-09-2003 10:44 PM
So, I've become a one of the "you people". Well...I'm pretty sure that I've been labeled worse at one time or another.Seeker, I don't think that there's much of a debate regarding the dispicable attributes of Saddam. His evil tendicies and actions have been well documented and broadly acknowledged. There is no argument that he and those like him need to be nullified post haste. I would say he requires termination but I am one of "those people" who believe that we are not our body and when one's body dies that doesn't end it. We, in my belief, appear to be unfortunately stuck in a recurring cycle whereby we are compelled upon death of our body to pick up another and reenter this life as a human (for a long time I've said we don't need to worry about going to hell. We're already there). Therefore, based on this belilef, I would rather not terminate Saddam's body only to have that very messed up being resurface somewhere in a few years to once again dramatize his evil intentions. No, lets just get him confined somewhere until we can really handle him (not his body) thoroughly. Now, back to the children. I do not believe that we need to become the enemy we are fighting in order to win. In fact, that seems absurd to me. I do not see a justification for invasion of Iraq much less a "shock and awe" military strategy to nullify Saddam. Call it "national policy" call it "necessities of state" call it "collateral damage" call it "sacrifices of war" - whatever. It's all insane and I wholeheartedly bellieve waging war IS NOT an optimum solution and IS NOT the greatest good for the greatest number. 
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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim 3297 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-10-2003 01:03 AM
whew !that girls mother is to blame in this deal I can feel it...and it is shameful to use children as political pawns....there is no reason to not favor a war with iraq... which will : end a dangerous threat free the people stop human rights violations install a constitution provide a stable new democratic arab country could go on and on hoop if the U.S does not put an end to global radical rogue governments holding countries hostage via wmd and nuclear weapons now it may never happen...world threats are happening fast these days...but mostly for the iraqi people the building of lavish palaces and bunkers will stop and the hungry will eat.

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swamp gas
Bird Man of Hudson County

Jersey City, NJ 779 posts, May 2002
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posted 03-10-2003 02:21 PM
A 13 year old that thinks for herself...How horrible!!! Seeker, You say
end a dangerous threat free the people stop human rights violations install a constitution provide a stable new democratic arab country I'll counter 1) start a new set of threats from other terrorists 2) free the people to eat McDonald's and listen to Christina Arguillera and Eminem 3) Continue US rights violations 4) Install a worthless charter, much like what the US Constitution has become 5) Provide a Coroprate Feudal State much like what America has become.
When I was 9 years old, a long long time ago, we had one of the "duck and cover" drills. We were herded into the hall, and covered our heads, while we kneeled into the wall. I wouldn't do it. At the time I was, and still am, an avid science fiction fan. Knowing the futility of surviving an atomic blast I said there's no way this will help if we're nuked. The teacher got mad, and there was a big stink with the priciple and my parents. They wanted to suspend me. Well, my Mom, being the tough Russian-Pole she was, said they can speak to lawyers if they want. The school backed down. I was given the option to participate if i wanted to. I didn't.
To this day, I question authority whole-heartedly. Kids can think on their own. if given the chance, and have loving parents. A 13 year old can have a mind of his/her own. Seeker, if you send your kids into a war, would you ask them first?

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim 3297 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-10-2003 03:57 PM
she doesn't know the facts gas...which means the child is being intentionally mis-led by her parent(s)... more folks have died because of saddam in the last 12 years than will perish in the war....period....
your counter excludes time honored psychology...see terrorists and the ones like kim in korea are the proverbial brat kid who grab a toy or something at the store and won't put it back...kicking and screaming "I want it" "it's mine...mine...mine !" the solution is simple...they need some discpline...a good spanking... 
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swamp gas
Bird Man of Hudson County

Jersey City, NJ 779 posts, May 2002
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posted 03-11-2003 08:44 AM
Sounds like your talking about the good old USA, and George "Dumbya" Bush.
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ScaredForTheFuture
Senior Member

Orange County, CA,USA 90 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 10:16 AM
I didn't even read it...SaDAMN is the one to blame by mixing his government with common people. SaDAMN surrounds himself with citizens so that we look like the bad guy when we attack him. He's the sicko here. 
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Molliani
Senior Member
Illinois 346 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 03-11-2003 11:29 PM
Scared ForThe Future ? How about being Scared ForThe Present. Did you know that Bush is learning how to play the fiddle?Strange that Saddam the dictator would surround himself with the "armed" commoners. It's a shame that our military will be used to confiscate the guns of the commoners . . that is - if anyone manages to survive MOAB. 
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Mech
Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA 3907 posts, Sep 2002
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posted 03-12-2003 01:24 AM
Great Post Hoople.Saddam is bad, but we all know the REAL reasons behind this war. The same people that made Saddam what he is now claim to have a reason to take over Iraq. Some of us know better. 
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