posted 03-11-2003 01:24 PM            

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60816FC3D5C0C728FDDA80894DB404482

TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003

YOU MEAN SADDAM DIDN'T GAS HIS OWN PEOPLE?

MARCH 11. Very little attention has been paid to Stephen Pelletiere’s op ed piece in the New York Times (Jan. 31, “A War Crime or an Act of War”).

Pelletiere was the CIA’s senior political analyst on Iraq during the 1980s war between Iraq and Iran, and later served as a professor at the US Army War College (1988-2000).

His op ed piece attacks the theory that Saddam gassed the Kurds. You know, “Saddam gassed his own people.” That oft-repeated charge that makes up a significant part of the administration’s argument for war now.

Pelletiere had access to a lot of the classified data that was generated around the Kurd matter. He was in charge of the 1991 Army probe that investigated the question: How would Saddam fight a war against the US?

The major gassing incident occurred in March 1988 at a town called Halabja. “But the truth is,” Pelletiere writes, “all we know for certain is that Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day.” This occurred near the end of the Iraq-Iran war.

Pelletiere writes, “…immediately after the battle [at Halabja] the United States Defense Information Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.”

Obviously, this report has been intentionally ignored by several presidents and their major mouthpieces.

Pelletiere goes on to write that both the Iraqis and the Iranian troops used gas at Halabja. “The condition of the dead Kurds’ bodies, however, indicated that they had been killed with a blood agent---that is, a cyanide-based gas---which Iran was known to have. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.”

If Bush were simply saying that Saddam deserves to die because he used mustard gas, then Bush might want to mention, as well, that the US employed tons and tons of Agent Orange (a chemical, the last time I looked) in Vietnam.

Then Pelletiere raises and answers a very interesting question. Why was the battle of Halabja fought? “…Iraq has the most extensive river system in the Middle East…Iraq had built an impressive system of dams and river control projects, the largest being the Darbandikhan dam in the Kurdish area. And it was this dam the Iranians were seeking to take control of when they seized Halbja.”

Pelletiere points out that a water pipeline through Iraq “could bring the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates south to the parched Gulf states, and by extension, Israel.”

To date that pipeline has not been built. But after Gulf War 2? Would Israel become one of the prime beneficiaries in the aftermath?

Remember, the charge that has been leveled at Saddam is, he gassed his own civilians. Pelletiere is offering evidence collected by US intelligence and military analysts that refutes that charge.

Bush, Powell, Blair, and the rest of the crew are brushing all this off without a glance.

JON RAPPOPORT www.stratiawire.com

You mean to tell me that all of this chest pounding by the Media and the US and British government's a sham? I just can't believe it. Lord Bush, Slick Willy, Jack Asscrack, Rumpsmell, Mi Lai Powell, and Poodle Blair are fabricating evidence to push a globalist agenda?

posted 03-11-2003 03:23 PM            

there's always a trouble maker in the neighborhood gas...that's saddam...unless your going to question whether it was him that invaded iran and kuwait, or gassed those poor little puppies ?

btw, I answered your qeustion in the other thread...and mech ran from mine just like I said he would....

posted 03-11-2003 04:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
the op-ed piece (appropriate) said "they didn't know" and if we are to take a cia man's word as fact which I'm not...but if YOU do, does not mean anything's a sham...

---

Now hold on Bobbalew! If a CIA man says' "we have conclusive evidence" of Hussein's gassing of Kurds, would you then say the same thing? Can't have it both ways, bro.

posted 03-11-2003 07:08 PM            

"is it American and patriotic to participate in a movement funded by the communist party ?"

posted 03-11-2003 07:25 PM            

U.S. used nerve gas during Vietnam War-
June 7, 1998
--------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States used lethal nerve gas during a mission to kill American defectors in Laos during the Vietnam War in 1970, according to the results of an eight-month investigation broadcast Sunday on the premiere of "NewsStand: CNN & Time."
The report was based on interviews with 200 people, including dozens who fought or flew on the mission, called Operation Tailwind.
Retired Adm. Thomas Moorer, a Vietnam-era chief of naval operations and former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told CNN that the Nixon White House's national security team had to approve use of the nerve gas, and that the CIA had partial responsibility for Operation Tailwind.
He confirmed that nerve gas was used, and acknowledged in an off-camera interview that the mission's target was indeed American defectors.
At the time, Nixon had pledged the United States to a policy of "no first use" of nerve gas. The American government had also signed a treaty restricting chemical weaponry, though the Senate had not ratified it.
SOG commandos carried out "black operations" against unusual targets, using unusual weapons. On Operation Tailwind, officers were briefed that anything in the non-nuclear U.S. arsenal would be available to them. That arsenal included a weapon known as "sleeping gas."
According to military officials with knowledge of the operation, that "sleeping gas" was, in fact, a nerve gas known as sarin -- the same gas that was used in the attack on a subway in Tokyo on March 20, 1995. The military name for the nerve gas was GB.
'Hatchet force' equipped with gas masks
Tailwind's commander, U.S. Army Capt. Eugene McCarley, told CNN that he equipped all his men with M-17 gas masks -- masks that are designed to protect against nerve gas. The men also carried atropine, a nerve gas antidote.
A few days before the hatchet force was deployed, a reconnaissance team had been scouting the area in Laos, looking for defectors. Jay Graves, a reconnaissance team leader, saw what he called "roundeyes," meaning Caucasians, in a village base camp. He radioed the sighting back to his superiors. Graves was told to stay hidden and wait.
Jim Cathey, who was a U.S. Air Force non-commissioned officer in charge of resupply for the SOG commandos, also was in the area before the hatchet force team dropped in. He spent five hours closely observing the village base camp. Like Graves, he spotted what he believes were Americans in that village base camp.
"I believe that there were American defectors in that group of people in that village, because there was ... no sign of any kind of restraint," he said.
From the time the SOG commandos were put on the ground, they were in constant firefights. By the third day, more than half the commandos were wounded and getting low on ammunition.
According to military officials, during the evening, American planes gassed the camp with deadly sarin, using a special weapon, CBU-15, a cluster bomb unit designed to drop the nerve gas.
The next morning, the hatchet force attacked the camp, killing more than 100 people, according to McCarley and other Tailwind veterans.
Platoon leader: Defectors were to be killed
Tailwind's commander, U.S. Army Capt. Eugene McCarley, told CNN that he equipped all his men with M-17 gas masks -- masks that are designed to protect against nerve gas. The men also carried atropine, a nerve gas antidote.
A few days before the hatchet force was deployed, a reconnaissance team had been scouting the area in Laos, looking for defectors. Jay Graves, a reconnaissance team leader, saw what he called "roundeyes," meaning Caucasians, in a village base camp. He radioed the sighting back to his superiors. Graves was told to stay hidden and wait.
Several former senior military officials confirmed to CNN that eliminating defectors was Tailwind's objective, but McCarley denies that was the mission's purpose.
"We weren't looking for any village," he said. "We stumbled upon it by accident."
Jim Cathey, who was a U.S. Air Force non-commissioned officer in charge of resupply for the SOG commandos, also was in the area before the hatchet force team dropped in. He spent five hours closely observing the village base camp. Like Graves, he spotted what he believes were Americans in that village base camp.
"I believe that there were American defectors in that group of people in that village, because there was ... no sign of any kind of restraint," he said.
From the time the SOG commandos were put on the ground, they were in constant firefights. By the third day, more than half the commandos were wounded and getting low on ammunition.
According to military officials, during the evening, American planes gassed the camp with deadly sarin, using a special weapon, CBU-15, a cluster bomb unit designed to drop the nerve gas.
Sarin also used on enemy troops
After the camp was overrun, the hatchet force prepared to evacuate. But enemy troops were gathering on a ridge line with anti-aircraft guns. Desperate, the SOG commandos called for gas and put on their gas masks.
Two A-1 Skyraider planes dropped the special sarin-filled weapon CBU-15 on the enemy positions.
The effect of the gas was immediate. Tailwind veterans describe enemy troops convulsing and throwing up. "I don't think too many of them got up and walked away," said Tailwind veteran
Many of the American and Montagnard commandos had lost or damaged their masks during the four days of fighting. They describe mucus coming from their membranes, vomiting and convulsing -- all classic signs of nerve gas exposure.
But the SOG force got a milder dose because the down draft from the helicopters coming to rescue them dispersed the gas. All 16 Americans, though wounded, survived the operation.

Editor's Note
As the great historian Avro Manhattan proves in his book Vietman . . . why did we go? this war was just another brutal Roman Catholic Inquisition with no rules of engagement. Solders who deserted and did not want to take part in the brutal persecution of Buddhists where systematically hunted down and killed. This is an omen for the future should Rome ever accomplish her goal of disarming the American people!!

posted 03-11-2003 08:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
ok then why can't you answer this simple question :

"is it American and patriotic to participate in a movement funded by the communist party ?"

no bullshit either...just answer it...yes or no...

---

Seeker,
I'll answer that. Yes, it is patriotic.

Now answer mine.

Is it patriotic and American to participate in a movement funded by ExxonMobil and Lockheed?

Simple yes or no...........

P.S. Of course, you know the answer will be loaded by our personal prejudices, so this is academic.

posted 03-11-2003 10:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
mech can't answer for himself ? see that's why mech was banned at mav's...he won't answer simple questions...and if you can't explain yourself and why the foot and a half long posts...day after day after day...well then mav was correct, I see that now...

gas you need to clarify what movement is funded by the oil co's ?

---

The War Party Movement, as coined by Pat Buchanan and Ralph Nader

posted 03-11-2003 11:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
no, supporting war (proliferation) for strictly capital purpose is wrong

---

posted 03-12-2003 01:08 AM            

Don't like the answer?

posted 03-12-2003 01:09 AM            

that's a horrible way to look at things...but a correct one I'm afraid...they've all got their flaws...NO ONE comes close to clinton on sleazy...he was the king of the backroom deals...all the way around...

history dictates what has to be done this has all been layed out way before we were born and Bush is the best one for the job...Pat B. suggested sealing the borders way before 9/11 and was labeled a racist...

which in sealing would also put an end damn near to captian's drug problem and my beef with the 30 year pork barrel program the DEA...

but why has it not been done ?

hmmmm...

btw, there is only one perfect leader...and the closest to that was Reagan !

posted 03-12-2003 04:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:

History dictates what has to be done this has all been laid out way before we were born and Bush is the best one for the job...Pat B. suggested sealing the borders way before 9/11 and was labeled a racist...

which in sealing would also put an end damn near to captain’s drug problem and my beef with the 30 year pork barrel program the DEA...

but why has it not been done ?

hmmmm...

btw, there is only one perfect leader...and the closest to that was Reagan !

---

Reagen from a conservative POV was. From a liberal/left view, old Al Heimer Ronnie was one of the worst. He initiated the deficient spiral, and Iran/Contra is a terrible scar.

You're right. no president was perfect. Slick Willy was certainly sleazy, but both Bush's were psychotic.

I liked Carter's personality, but his term was near disastrous. Now, you won't believe this, but the most honest in my time was... Dwight Eisenhower. The 50's were a relatively calm period, with lots of wealth. He warned us explicietly of what the NWO holds dear, The Military Industrial Complex.

posted 03-12-2003 04:54 PM            

look at some of those graphs it's sickening how gov. spending has increased in the last 20 years...

I know European musicians, highly developed, that can't get in this country, but Arabs and Mexicans of questionable origin easily come here. What's wrong with this picture?

posted 03-12-2003 05:01 PM            

AGAIN...I never left.

posted 03-21-2003 10:37 PM            

halfway down the page (slideshow) click "Kurds Mark 15th Anniversary of Halabja Gas Attack"....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030322/170/3l5k7.html

LOL !

posted 03-21-2003 10:46 PM            

Kind of like how we said we would help the Kurds during the uprise in the 1st gulf war...then turn our backs on them at the last minute. Letting Saddam turn his helicopter gunships on them in the North.

Hypocricy in action.

posted 03-21-2003 10:52 PM            

people who post un-facts get facts put to them...if you call that flaming...

well...