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  The 'quietly'brilliant man (Page 7)

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Topic:   The 'quietly'brilliant man

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-17-2003 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
once again your full of shit mech, bush is mentioned what once in that...ahemmm...article...

this thread is about BUSH not neo-con's....

personally thread drift does not bother me,and I could really care less...but when part-time moderator's come flyin in accusing ME of it...gets me buggin'...

especially considering how dead this board has been lately...I would think that encouraging discussion would be the thing to do...

carl's jr. has a damn good burger to...the double chilli cheese with fries...oh momma !

[Edited 1 times, lastly by theseeker on 05-17-2003]

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Mech
Tetragrammatron Cleric


Hyperspace
5603 posts, Sep 2002

posted 05-17-2003 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WHERE is BU$h NOT mentioned here Seeker?


"Why does the Bush administration lie so much?"

"It is mainly because Bush's Svengali-like political adviser, Karl Rove, has taken to heart the advice of Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-17-2003 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
only mentioned once...and like I said I don't really care until nosey folks start telling me how the cow ate the cabbage...

for the purist the topictude of your post was not about bush...it was more about karl rove...and it was chock full of hearsay and innuendo...

yeah...I trust that post of yours mech...all kinds of verifiable truth there...

NOT

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-19-2003 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
gonna really miss this guy...

Ari Fleischer to Resign as White House Press Secretary

Monday, May 19, 2003

WASHINGTON — Ari Fleischer (search) is resigning as White House press secretary.

The public face of the Bush administration through two wars and a terrorist attack, Fleischer said he plans to enter the private sector. His replacement will likely be deputy press secretary Scott McClellan .

"I informed President Bush last week that after 21 years of doing nothing but government and politics ... that I have decided that my time has come to leave the White House," Fleischer, 42, said Monday morning.

"I love this job … I believe deeply about President Bush as a man and I believe deeply in his policies, but it's my time to go."

Fleischer said he'll most likely leave in July and that he wanted to step down before Bush's re-election campaign gears up.

"I want to do something more relaxing -- like dismantle live nuclear weapons," he said jokingly.

He notified President Bush of his decision Friday, and the president ended the conversation "by kissing me on the head," he said.

Fleischer served as press secretary for Sen. Pete Dominici (search), R-N.M., from 1989 to 1994 and later as spokesman for the House Ways and Means Committee. Prior to joining the campaign of then-Gov. Bush in the fall of 1999, he served as communications director for Elizabeth Dole's presidential campaign.

It's not uncommon in the first two years of a new presidency that many high-level officials resign.

Fleischer said he may go on the speaking circuit and may do some writing. Married just six months ago, he told Fox News that the amount of time he spends on the job has prevented him from spending enough time with his wife.

With Bush beginning his re-election campaign, Fleischer said this is the time to leave the White House "or sign on for the full four years." But he said he plans to stay in Washington until the 2004 presidential election is over.

Fleischer said he will be more than willing to lend a hand to Bush's campaign staff.

"I've just been thinking about what I want to do, when I want to do it," he said.

Although he often jokes with reporters during the daily briefings, at times, Fleischer has found himself at odds with the White House press corps and had an uneasy relationship with some senior Bush aides, but he said the departure was his idea.

A cautious and calibrating press secretary, Fleischer has been the public voice and face of the Bush White House through the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the war in Afghanistan and Operation Iraqi Freedom, loyally putting the best spin on events.

He frustrated reporters by constantly dodging the toughest questions and sometimes irked his White House colleagues by pushing for access behind the scenes. But he also sought to ease tensions between the White House press.

"I think he was the right person for the job and for this president," said Joe Lockhart, former White House spokesman for Democratic President Bill Clinton. "The president wanted somebody who was loyal, who was disciplined, someone who needed to keep a secret. I think he was an articulate spokesman in a difficult situation, working for a president who demanded secrecy beyond what was really called for."

According to reports, Fleischer privately accused superiors of passing on bad information to the press office while the senior staff would quietly point the finger back to Fleischer. Still, senior White House officials said Monday that Fleischer left on his own, and that Bush wanted him to stay through the re-election campaign.

While his pronouncements on Bush policy have been in step with a White House that has kept a tight lid on information, Fleischer has had some fumbles.

For example, leading up to the war with Iraq, Fleischer denied reports that Bush was meeting with Prime Minister Tony Blair abroad. The trip was announced the next day.

He also goofed once on the whereabouts of the vice president. Asked why Dick Cheney did not attend a Sept. 11 anniversary event, Fleischer said the vice president was at a meeting of Bush's top aides.

When it was pointed out to him that Bush's top aides were at the anniversary event, Fleischer stammered.

Cheney actually had been whisked away to a secret location because of the same potential threats to the country that prompted the government to heighten the public terror alert soon after.

Fleischer also acknowledged shooting himself in the foot when he snapped that "one bullet" in Saddam Hussein's head would be cheaper than a war to topple the Iraqi dictator.

But Fleischer also showed his more humorous streak.

This year, he defended Bush's plan to deny normal collective bargaining and other workers' rights at the Homeland Security Department by noting that presidents have long had the authority to suspend such rights in a national emergency.

Senate opponents would stop Bush from using powers he already has in other departments, he contended.

"If he declared that there was an emergency, he could stop collective bargaining at the Department of Agriculture," Fleischer said. "So under what the Senate is proposing, the president will have more authority to help protect the homeland if potatoes attacked America in the Department of Agriculture than he would if terrorists did."

Two senior White House officials said Bush hasn't yet decided who will replace Fleischer. They agreed that Texas native McClellan is the likely replacement, but there are other candidates, including Republican strategist Ed Gillespie and Pentagon spokesman Victoria Clarke.

One week out of college, Fleischer came to Washington and began work in politics. He was planning on staying in the area in that field for only a year, and wound up staying for over 20.

Fleischer said he hopes to eventually move back to New York.

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-19-2003 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Say it ain't so! Now who's going to have all that fun with the senile Helen Thomas?
I thought that guy was one of the coolest dudes under pressure....but I think this statement pretty much says it all;

I want to do something more relaxing -- like dismantle live nuclear weapons," he said jokingly.

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-20-2003 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I've seen about every Fleischer briefing the last 1 1/2 years...he's good...I'd hate to play poker with him...cool calm and smooth as glass...his loss is a big mistake and problem for the bush admin.

as the article says he's basically at the top of his game...

people don't leave at the top of their game...

historically the "bush's" make catastrophic mistake that cost them...I would hope this ain't one of them....

then again those damn women have a habit of changing the history of men...

ari speaks :

For today, all I can tell you is when I look back and I think about the almost four years, I look back and think what a period of time in our nation's history that this has been, and how fortunate I am that President Bush asked me to stand at this podium and serve.


You know, it was the closest election in modern history. It was a Supreme Court recount. In 2001, of course, one of the first actions that took place was after the President's tax cut went through and education plans, there was an historic switch in the United States Senate. September 11th, one war, the anthrax attacks, another war, all of that has taken place in less than four years. It's a momentous period of time that I've had the privilege of standing here and serving this President. I think much of the reason it is such a big era with big things happening is because President Bush has faced them and made this a big era where he's willing to confront these challenges.

And that's what I think about today. And I also think, frankly, about the fact that all those items I just listed took place while I was in the White House -- one war, two wars, the anthrax attacks. But most importantly, what also took place here, is I met my wife who worked in this White House. And I'm very much looking forward to relaxing and spending more time with her.


Today's white house briefing transcript


BIO

[Edited 1 times, lastly by theseeker on 05-20-2003]

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-20-2003 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I liked the fact that Bush kissed his shiny head when Ari gave him notice. Just shows what kind of individual we have as a president...a great and caring human being.

By contrast, when Clinton was president, kissing heads was Monica's job...

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


994 posts, Nov 2002

posted 05-21-2003 06:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is precedent for such shows of affection.
And for the affection of followers for their leader.
Rather than distance themselves like left/centrists do, rightwing politicians often show public respect to those whom they have cast aside.

eg:

>Hitler walked over to Hindenburg and respectfully bowed before him while taking hold of the old man's hand.<
http://www.fwsd.wednet.edu/tot/Gen%20Why%20projects/Holocaust%20Web%20Page/hist/hist24.htm

>Hitler was well loved and loved in return,<

>"Hitler, the artist and designer,
designed a society for loving human beings, not plastic dummies."
Through this great struggle, the white Germanic messiah prevented
"the end of White Civilization."

Even in defeat, therefore, "we loved him because his spiritual
presence prevented our sufferings and sorrows from overwhelming
us."<
from: "The Hitler We Loved and Why"
George Dietz & 'Christof Friedrich' (pseudonym of 'Ernst Zundel')


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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-21-2003 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems like you have a Hitler fetish, Shitoga....

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-21-2003 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
he watched hitler the early years last night and got a little worked up over the deal....achtung her shitoga ! achtung !

////

seems to be a trend of bush admin. leaving to spend time with family...

hmmm...


Christie Whitman Resigns As EPA Chief
By JOHN HEILPRIN
ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON (AP) -

Christie Whitman, sometimes at odds with the Bush White House over environmental issues and a lightning rod for the administration's critics, resigned Wednesday as head of the Environmental Protection Agency.

Whitman said in a letter to President Bush that she was leaving to spend time with family.

"As rewarding as the past two-and-a-half years have been for me professionally, it is time to return to my home and husband in New Jersey, which I love just as you do your home state of Texas," she wrote Bush.

With Whitman's departure as EPA administrator, Bush loses one of the most prominent women in his Cabinet - a moderate former New Jersey governor selected by the president to help soften his image as a political conservative, particularly on environmental issues.

In a statement, Bush called Whitman "a trusted friend and adviser who has worked closely with me to achieve real and meaningful results to improve our environment," and also "a dedicated and tireless fighter for new and innovative policies for cleaner air, purer water and better protected land."


http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-other/2003/may/21/052109756.html

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


994 posts, Nov 2002

posted 05-21-2003 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is precedent for such shows of affection.
And for the affection of followers for their leader.
Rather than distance themselves like left/centrists do, rightwing politicians often show public respect to those whom they have cast aside.
eg:
Christie Todd Whitman.
it wasn't from watching the miniseries stupids.
It's from knowing the truth!

You stepped into the truth.
Now try to ignore it:
Conservatives and the "N" word
Among Conservatives,
The only "N" word not socially acceptable is "Nazi"
because it describes them so accurately.
How dare I...compare Conservatives to Nazis?
I don't!
They compare themselves to Nazis, by their rhetoric and by their actions.

The parallels in rhetoric are unmistakable:
"I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise.
There needs to be some kind of protection for
the minority which the white people represent now,
and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."
--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92
"Die Deutschen Leute verlangen Schutz!"--Adolph Hitler
The German people demand protection!
If it spouts Nazi rhetoric,
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens,
nor should they be considered patriots.
This is one nation under God."-- George Bush
Jews should not be considered citizens of Germany.
Ein Volk-Ein Reich-Ein Fuhrer!-Gott Mitt Eins!
Behaves like a Nazi:
>(a famous reporter at CNN) says "The news room is practically a war zone itself --
the reporters are being prevented by a single news editor
from reading stories that are coming over the wire service
if they don't promote the Administration's propaganda. (tidbit from a party)<
Sound familiar?
Nazis and the Republican Party
By Carla Binion
January 28, 2000 |
Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in "Blowback" that after World War II,
Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U. S.
These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees."
Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals
but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas.
The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler.
It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party.< http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/Special_Reports/Nazis/nazis.html http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.htm http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm
Takes the same actions, for the same reasons,as the Nazis did:
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism
and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same in any country."
Hermann Goering,
{It's working in America today!}
-it's a Nazi party=GOP
And I'm not the only person who has noticed! http://home.attbi.com/~slimyslugs/reichstag_fire_and_september_11.htm http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html http://www.propagandamatrix.com/bush_school_photos_2.html http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/apocalypse/25_reasons.html http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/what_was_the_government_doing.htm http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/g6b_calgary.html http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/story.pl?title=September%2011%20-%20US%20Government%20accused&edition=663 http://web11.superb.net/www.nodomain.com/editorials/smoking_gun.html
<" target=_blankhttp://www.falloutshelternews.com/images/GWREICH.JPG>;
Remove ">" brackets "<" to view image
<" target=_blankhttp://home.attbi.com/~slimyslugs/reichstag_fire__september_11.jpg>; http://www.falloutshelternews.com/What_Would_Hitler_Do.html http://www.freefromterror.net http://www.copvcia.com http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index1a.html http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html%20 http://www.tetrahedron.org http://rense.com/general25/genr.htm http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2797&forum=DCForumID12 http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5853&forum=DCForumID38
"something that's really important and is so true...
Democrats are just as patriotic about their country as Republicans"
George W. Bush- January 22, 2001
Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.
more... http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm
peace
--
Image
"The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing" Socrates
Send an email blast to the media today! http://globalfreepress.com/media_blast.pl
also check out a REAL free press... http://news.globalfreepress.com
To all those who hate the Nazi comparisons.... http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=34654&forum=DCForumID60&omm=0
Justice Dept. Drafts Sweeping Expansion of Anti-Terrorism Act http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=13804&forum=DCForumID61&omm=0
Prove the information that shows a deliberate program to transform the Republican right wing into Nazis is wrong.
Please!
That's what Democrats do - persuade with facts. http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID12/2935.html http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2990&forum=DCForumID12 http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2926&forum=DCForumID12
That seem to match pretty closely things that I've heard out of the mouths of * & Falwell/Robertson:
"The national government will regard as its first & foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity & cooperation. It will preserve & defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards christianity as the foundation of our national morality, & the family as the basis of national life."
--Adolf Hitler, Proclamation to the German Nation, 2/1/33
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction & a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training & religion must be derived from faith...We need believing people."
--Adolf Hitler, 4/26/33
-------------------------------------
. there's a Bad Moon on the rise
Everything under the Moon-
Must see! link: http://www.perkel.com/politics/moonies/
>The Moonies are not your friend
The Moonies are a dangerous mind control cult with millions of followers and billions of dollars. Reverend Moon is a religous nut who is trying to take over the world. Moon openly admits that he thinks he is God and he expects to be worshipped! As you read my Washington Times exerpts from Moon's web site, you will see how deeply rooted the Moonies are in the press, the Christian evangelical movement, and the Republican Party. If you're a member of the Press, a Christian, or a Republican, this should scare the Hell out of you.<
>Moon claims on his Web Site http://www.unification.net
that he had great influence over Reagan. Moon claims he was the one who got Reagan to go for SDI (Star Wars). Moon claims that through the Washington Times,
a Moonie owned newspaper, that he is responsible for Bush winning the presidency in 1988.
Since than President Bush has appeared at Moonies events and endorsed the cause of the moonies. So has former president Ford. Moon has spend at least 2 Billion Dollars influencing American Politics, Christian Organizations, and the American Press.<
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/132/33.0.html http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif112.html
>Frederick Clarkson (Eternal Hostility, Common Courage Press, 1997) reports that Moon has stated his goal is the "subjugation of the American government and population." {B}(Clarkson's source: John Judis, "Rev. Moon's Rising Political Influence: His Empire Is Spending Big Money To Try To Win Favor With Conservatives," U. S. News and World Report, March 27, 1989.)
according to former Unification church members, Moon's program to "instill discipline" included showing "Nazi films on organizing Hitler Youth."< http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/categories/info/1009.html http://www.catch22.com/~vudu/moon.html
>The "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon is the leader of one of the world's most insidious and influential cults--one with an estimated $10 billion in business assets worldwide. His church controls TheWashington Times ( America's capital's second largest daily newspaper), Paragon Publishers of New York, the University of Bridgeport,the Christian Bernard jewelery chain, Happy World toy and clothing outlets, and China's Panda Motors. He also sponsors such bogus right-wing organizations as the "World Media Association" and the "International Cultural Foundation" which seek to lend legitimacy to this cult. He has hoodwinked a number of none-too-erudite politicians, scholars, and religious leaders worldwide into lending their name to his support. One, suprisingly, is none other than Rodrigo and Estrella Carazo Odio, Costa Rica's former president and first lady, who were listed as members of the "International Host Committee" who welcomed Moon during his 1993 world tour. They were in the company of such personages as Donald Reid-Cabral--the right-wing, CIA-payrolled "interim" president of the Dominican Republic who was named to that post after a US-instigated coup overthrew democratically elected president Juan Bosch in 1963. < http://www.realjournalism.net/times.htm

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-21-2003 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Shitoga, are you sure you aren't Crazy Larry by another name? Shit still smells as bad by any other name (to “paraphrase” Shakespeare). I notice that your styles of spam are similar, as if pre-written in an e-mail file somewhere...only Crazy Larry makes liberal use of the all capitalized sentences to emphasize a deranged point hear and there.

We haven't heard from Mech lately either. Are you sure you turkeys aren't all the same idiot?

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-21-2003 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
he's doing what mech was doing posting the same garbage'....

whether intentional or by mistake still the same garbage'

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-21-2003 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clinton praises Bush

The Boston Channel reports the presidential campaign of Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry received some startling news Wednesday from his own back yard. A poll recently conducted by the research institute Mass Insight shows Kerry trailing President Bush in the race for president in the Bay State. Knight Ridder: Gearing up a money machine that he hopes to ride to re-election, President Bush will return to the fund-raising circuit Wednesday with a $12 million dinner for Republican congressional candidates. The gala at Washington's new convention center is a warm-up for what is sure to be another record-shattering money drive for Bush's own re-election campaign. Republican strategists say the president could easily raise as much as $200 million, an amount that would give him a huge financial advantage over his Democratic rivals. In 2000 Bush raised $100 million in private donations, dwarfing Democrat Al Gore's war chest. NewsMax.com reports Bill Clinton stunned a Syracuse University audience on Mother's Day. The controversial former president delivered a commencement address devoid of controversy or partisan politics. And at a time other Democrats - including his own wife - are attacking the White House on everything from tax cuts to judicial nominees, Clinton actually praised his Republican successor.

http://www.stopdemocrats.com/

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-22-2003 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a good day !

AP reports President Bush on Thursday embraced a dramatically reduced compromise version of his tax-cut plan Tuesday, calling the $350 billion package "good for American workers, good for American families." In a rare trip to Capitol Hill, the president thanked the GOP-led Congress for passing an AIDS spending bill and promised to make Medicare reform a top issue when lawmakers return from a Memorial Day recess. The Des Moines Register's David Yepsen writes "The 2004 Democratic presidential campaign is taking on the trappings of the 1984 contest. There's a glut of candidates - eight then, nine now. They're starting to spend much of their time traveling from one debate to another courting different party constituencies at these political "cattle shows." The wannabies do a good job beating up the Republican incumbent at these yak-a-thons, but in an effort to differentiate themselves they can jeopardize party unity by sounding small and sniping. Candidates also tend to pander and fall into the natural trap of telling groups what they want to hear. Both the pandering and the sniping could contribute to making the nominee unelectable." NewsMax.com reports former Ku Klux Klansman Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.V., staged a rhetorical cross-burning on the floor of the U.S. Senate on Wednesday, scorching the Bush administration for leading the U.S. into war with Iraq under what he said were false pretenses.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/22/tax.cuts.ap/index.html

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-23-2003 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the numbers !

why do all those democrats want to keep our money...

payroll tax decrease starts july 1

checks of 400 per child this summer

house 231-200

senate 51-50

vote em' out !!!

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-23-2003 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
house 231-200

senate 51-50


And Mech says there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans.....

The differences could not be more clear in this almost straight party line vote.

Democrats in power want to keep your money to maintain their power and buy votes. Those petty, greedy, corrupt, eletist, selfish SOBs don't think I have a RIGHT to keep my own money and spend it on what I want to spend it on...and they would rather have the economy go to hell than risk making GW look good, and they did succeed in getting Bush's proposed tax cut reduced by half. (I think Repubs are too willing to compromise btw and should have held out for more).

But almost EVERY greedy SOB Democrat, to a person, voted to keep your money and my money for themselves...

If this doesn't illustrate the stark differences, I don't know what does. It's disgusting and almost obscene how far left most of the Democrats have become...I think we are going to see a Republican landslide again in 2004.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 05-24-2003]

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-24-2003 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
rather surprised mech and shitoga have not thanked bush for the tax cut yet....

oh yeah they don't pay taxes...

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-25-2003 04:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or.....they don't have an income...

See, that's the thing about income taxes, if you don't have an income, you can't get an income tax refund.

(liberals don't seem to understand this concept..they also don't understand the concept of percentages...it's a tax cut for everyone, not just the rich)

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


994 posts, Nov 2002

posted 05-25-2003 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How do you dittoheads manage to type while holding hands.

Oh,
that's right..
It's not each other's hands you're holding.

circle of jerks

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-25-2003 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Notice that the Shatmeister doesn't say that our commentary isn't true...just that we are jerks for speaking the truth.

Deny it isn't true Shitoga...It is a well known fact that you liberals hate the idea of a tax cut. Tell us why please.

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


994 posts, Nov 2002

posted 05-26-2003 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course it isn't true RW dittohead!
It never was!
even George 'opium Poppy' Bush called it Vodoo Economics.
Just like using one credit card to pay another.
Only dittoheads could be so stupic as to ignore basic concepts/ such as
"spend more than you take in" (borrow and spend Re-Publicans) vs/ pay as you go
"spend only what revenue supports" (pay as you go Democrats)


$2.7 TRILLION SCAM http://www.etherzone.com/2003/henr051603.shtml

ENRON, WORLDCOM, OTHERS, ARE PIKERS

By: Ed Henry

Don't worry, forty-three percent of our horrendous
national debt is completely fraudulent and could be
eliminated tomorrow without consequence. All that has
to happen is that the Beltway Bandits suddenly become
honest or, in one way or another, honest people decide
to get rid of the bums, all of them.

Sounds preposterous, doesn't it? Well, it is. It's
preposterous that this has been allowed to continue
for as long as it has. It's preposterous that our national
debt has risen from practically nothing to an incredible
$6.4 trillion in the last twenty-five years.

It's also preposterous that the government is prosecuting
companies in the private sector for doing the same thing
that our lawmakers do on a much larger scale.

Ironically, the pirates turn to industrial reports, factory
figures, or the elements of the Gross Domestic Product
put forth by the same industrial giants who hide debt
and distort their financial position to show that "as a
percentage of GDP" our debt really isn't as bad as
it looks. Talk about students bringing apples
to the teacher.

Let's face a few facts:

Since taking office, George W. Bush has run up
the national debt $733 billion. And that's only from
January 31, 2001 until February 20, 2003, a little
over two years.

In the first year of the Bush term, fiscal 2001, the
government claimed to have the second largest surplus
in history—a surplus of $127.2 billion, all of it from
entitlements like Social Security's $98.7 billion
payroll tax overcharge in 2001.

On February 20, 2003, almost 90 days ago, three
months or one full quarter of the fiscal year, we hit
the national debt limit or ceiling of $6.4 trillion and the
government has not been able to borrow new money
since that time. That's a long time for borrowholics
to be on the wagon.

This fact has been ignored and underplayed by the
loyal media, watchdogs, think tanks, or those supposedly
watching our economy—probably because the government
told them to sit back, shut up, and wave their flags. We do
not want to appear financially weak during the invasion
and rebuilding of Iraq or display our dirty underwear
to a world population increasingly against us.

Amongst the false promises and government inability
to adhere to its own policies, the 1997 Balanced Budget
Act picked the year 2003 as the time when the government
would finally be able to live within its income, the almost
two trillion in taxes now provided annually by taxpayers.

It was the same popular Balanced Budget Act of 1997
that, unbeknown to most, included a raise of the national
debt limit to $5.95 trillion. This raise was inserted by John
Kasich (R-Ohio), Head of the House Budget Committee,
long before it was needed.

Shortly before or immediately after hitting the debt
limit on February 20th of this year, Congress could have
voted to raise the debt limit or placed such a raise into
other popular legislation for passage. They failed
to do so. Why?

The fact that the federal government has been able
to survive a full quarter without spending more than it
receives proves something, doesn't it? How long could
they go if they were truly cost conscious?

Every State in the union, every city and local government,
has been suffering from a lack of federal funding. Programs
included in the federal budget for fiscal 2003 have been cut
off at the knees.

Local governments have already bitten the bullet by cutting
essential programs, including Homeland Security, since the
money for these programs went into the invasion of Iraq.
(See: New York Times article of May 8, 2003, and one
from the Washington Times on May 14, 2003.)

We have a trade deficit of more than $500 billion that
will skyrocket even more due to the boycotting of American
products across the world including our strongest allies where
more than 80 percent of the populations of Britain, Spain,
and Australia were against our invasion of Iraq.

Does anyone know what it cost us to buy the "coalition
of the willing" that includes many small nations mumbled
to be somewhere between 40 and 60 supporters?

We have a weakening position of the dollar against
the Euro. Last reports were that it takes $1.15 US to
buy one Euro.

Debt limits became law in 1968 as a means to force
the federal government to live within its revenue, to
balance its budgets. It has never worked.

Laughably, the debt limit was supposed to make it
embarrassing for a politician to stand before Congress and
ask for a borrowing increase. Can you beat that?
Begging for

money is a prerequisite of political life in our country.

The borrowholics of Washington have no compunction
about using their constitutionally authorized "emergency"
credit card to run up the national debt and place more
and more burden on our children and grandchildren.
This applies to democrats and republicans alike.

Paul O'Neill resigned as Secretary of the Treasury
and Mitch Daniels recently resigned as head of the Office
of Management and Budgets (OMB) the president's
budgetary advisor.

As usual, the spin claims these gentlemen left to spend
more time with their families and, in the case of Mr. Daniels,
includes the new twist of a possible running for governor
of Indiana. But it's beginning to look a lot like rats
leaving a sinking ship.

Deeper meaning.

We now have estimates of deficits in the hundreds
of billions per year and these so-called deficits do not
include the money stolen from entitlements like Social
Security's surplus that are included in budgets as "off
budget" revenue but increase the national debt.

If entitlement overcharges are included in the budget,
then they cannot be considered "over budget." How's
that for crooking the books and hiding debt
Enron style?

Contrary to the propaganda, surpluses are not gone.
Entitlements have always accounted for the major if not
the only portion of any government surplus. In fiscal 2000,
Social Security alone produced a surplus of $94.5 billion.

In 2001 it was $98.7 billion. And in fiscal 2002, even
with high unemployment, it was still an $89 billion surplus/
overcharge or what could be called profit. And all of this
came from an organization supposedly "in trouble."

In the same years, all nineteen entitlements together
accounted for surpluses of $149.8 billion, $160.7 billion,
and $149.0 billion respectively.

President Bush talks about the "double taxation" involved
in dividend taxes, but it's nothing compared to the double
taxation involved in the working man's entitlement taxes.

Companies pay taxes on their profits. Then when they
declare dividends to investors, the investors pay a capital
gains tax on the money they receive. These are not the
same people paying the same tax. It's more like paying
sales tax on a used car after the person who bought it
new paid the first tax. Charging sales tax every time
a car is resold wasn't always a tax.

If the president wanted a real stimulus to the troubled
economy he would cut payroll taxes. If he really wanted
people to go out and spend more, he would help the
American workers who supposedly account for two
thirds of the economic growth in our economy.

But the federal government is never going to give up
the slush funds they've painstakingly developed, the rip-
off of every worker's retirement and health care money
plus what's taken from seventeen other entitlements
from unemployment taxes to military retirement.

Here's what happens.

The government pretends to borrow every cent of
surplus entitlement money. It's all a big pretense and
fraudulent game they play. Actually, it's outright theft
and we are buying debt with every surplus cent
we give them.

The American worker might just as well walk into the
U.S. Treasury, plunk down a handful of money and say;
here, give me some debt.

The federal government spends and plans to spend every
surplus entitlement dollar that comes into the Treasury and
do so as fast as it comes in. Then, wanting the public to
believe that it's possible to both spend and save the same
money, they deposit certificates of obligation in a fund
that they call a "trust fund" but actually hasn't the slightest
resemblance to a real bonifide fiduciary activity dealing
with the stewardship of property.

It's a debit black hole containing nothing but debt.

Periodically, these certificates of deposit are rolled over
into "special obligation" nonmarketable U.S. Treasury bonds
as well as tacking on about six percent annual interest paid
against the previous year's balance just to make the
"borrowing" appear authentic.

Interest is figured on a five year model of the interest
paid real long term bonds sold investors on the honest side
of the national debt. A side that deals entirely with investor
loans but is deliberately mislabeled "Public Debt" (it should
be called Investor Debt) to make you believe it's the
only side for which the public is responsible.

Interest is also paid entitlements by simply handing
the "trust" more bogus bonds, no real money whatsoever
involved. Interest is paid the Social Security trust fund in
December and June. Last year, fiscal 2002, the Social
Security trust was paid $64.3 billion by simply handing
the distrust fund more debt. Isn't that nice?

Last year, the crisis over the national debt ceiling of
$5.95 trillion was due entirely to the semi-annual interest
due the Social Security trust—what the authorities confess
is a bookkeeping effort. Since this interest raises the national
debt substantially, it was essential the debt limit be raised
during June. On the very last working day, Friday, June
28th, the debt limit was raised to $6.4 trillion and
the crisis was over.

There is currently $2.7 trillion in bogus bonds in the
fraudulent Intragovernmental Holdings portion of the
national debt. The words "Intragovernmental Holdings"
are another misnomer to make you believe that the
government owes itself or that somehow the
government is going to pay this off without taxpayer
money”an absolute impossibility. This should be
called "Entitlement Debt."

Ninety-three percent of the "holdings" are in the
nineteen different entitlement black hole accounts
with Social Security being the largest at a current $1.3
trillion or 21.7 percent of the national debt all by itself.

The other seven percent is in perks for judges and
government employees. Simply name a trust, deposit
some bogus nonmarketable bonds in it, and when you
need real money take it from the Treasury's general
fund of recent taxpayer dollars or money borrowed
from investors. (See: Trust Fund List)

Economists have continually claimed that if the poor dears
in Washington ever have to turn to the Social Security trust
fund for money, they will be faced with the tough decision
to either (1) raise taxes (2) borrow from investors (3)
cut benefits, or any combination thereof.

These are the normal options of government in raising
and managing revenue whether there is a trust fund or not.
In other words, the trust fund is meaningless and useless
except as a means of double taxation.

The only single purpose of these fraudulent
"Intragovernmental Holdings" is that they allow
the Beltway Bandits to withdraw money from the
U.S. Treasury without having to vote on it. They
do not require legislation if the entitlement
needs money.

We've had confessions right from the horse's mouth,
from President Clinton and heads of the Congressional
Budget Office, that this is nothing more than a
bookkeeping scam.

But we also have Alan Greenspan of the Federal
Reserve telling us that "the only thing that matters is
that it's enforceable." When called on, revenue will come
out of the Treasury's general fund even if it takes all of
the operating cash for that year or forces more honest
borrowing from investors.

And this is happening right now, today, with the
Unemployment trust fund, the Airport & Airways trust,
the Highway trust fund, and several others. With today's
income taxes, we are repaying money that was already
paid once before by someone else.

Without its credit card, without the ability to substitute
money borrowed from investors, the government is forced
to cut existing programs. There has been no other choice
for the last three months.

When it happens with Social Security it will be the
same people who paid the tax in the first place, their
children or grandchildren, who will be paying the tax again,
plus interest. That's real double taxation, plain and
simple.

The federal government will never give up this scam.
It's up to the victims to take action.


"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication
allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."

Ed Henry is the founder of TUFF, the Taxpayers Union,
and a regular columnist for Ether Zone.

Ed Henry can be reached at ctzcrank@mindspring.com

Ed's FREE pamphlet-"To The Moon, Alice" the national
debt, your Social Security, and the Pay-It-Again
Sam scam.

We also invite you to visit his website at www.uncle-scam.com




[Edited 2 times, lastly by shatoga on 05-26-2003]

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-26-2003 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
fact is 200 democrats and 50 senate democrats said screw you to the American people...a family of 3 will get 1200 bones...that's real money in the pockets of those who need it...

of course democrats don't care about people they care about spending the people's money...

facts are impossible to argue with shitoga~meister....

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Fastwalker
Senior Member


832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 05-26-2003 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More liberal crap....What this article is saying in it’s obfuscating , overly-complicated way is that “we think government has a right to keep your money, to pay for the reckless spending and excesses of liberal politicians to buy your vote.” “Heck, we don’t even think you pay us enough for our incompetence.” That’s what this article is really saying.

What the tax cut really all boils down to is, those who pay taxes are getting some of their money back.

National debts and deficits are irrelevant. Those are caused by spending problems, and there are two ways they can be overcome.

1. Grow and stimulate the economy (ie, through a tax cut) so that economic growth brings in more than government spends.

2. Cut spending so that revenue (inflow) can keep up with out go...

This is really all there is to it. GW is going with solution number one, it seems.

And it's a moral question as well. As a nation, we are already over taxed. The problem is not on the tax side of the equation. The problem is on the wasteful spending side. The national debt or deficit is not the responsibility of the tax payer...it's the responsibility of government to cut reckless spending. It's the responsibility of the voter to put people in Washington who will do it. This means giving up their perks and all those extra programs people ask for from the politicians they elect.

But the bottom line is that the American tax payer is already over burdened. It is not even debatable that the American tax payer needs and deserves a tax cut. Not only is this moral, but by doing so, government will actually generate more revenue, and the debt will be paid down as long as some level of discipline is maintained with spending. GW is correct to increase spending on national security and defense, but he also needs to cut wasteful social programs to reduce spending. Clinton, only reduced spending on national security and defense to pay down the deficit. These are not appropriate areas to cut, for what should be obvious reasons. Things like 9/11 occur if you do that, which ends up costing the nation infinitely greater amounts in dollars and lives. So GW is actually doing EXACTLY what needs to be done with the tax cut. The only thing I would add is to start cutting those thousands of wasteful government social programs that liberals love so much and no I have no problem with cutting the payroll tax, but then you’d have liberals complaining that GW is cutting social security if he did that….(Are you getting the impression that liberalism is the problem here? You’d be right…)

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-26-2003 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
or you could look at it this way f/w...we have an 11 trillion dollar yearly economy...6t debt...the gov. spends 2t a year...

the 6t figure is nothing to worry about...and why do liberals worry so about it when it is their pork barrel spending that induces debt ?

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