posted 05-30-2003 01:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
"We're the bully on the block. don't you dare try to develop weapons to protect yourselves against US."

as it should be...when's the last time the U.S used bio-chemical weapons on another nation ?

commie got a cracker ?

---

NAZI wanta read some truth?

Remember the accusation that Saddam used WMD on his own people?

(since $eeker has proven over and over he/she/it does not visit links nor read all of posts/ I begin with a rightwing 'news' source)

From the right wing LA Times:
http://www.gulflink.org/stories/LaTimes/biotests%20.htm
Cold War Bio-Weapon Tests Included California
Defense: Secret trials in six states, from '62 to '73, were to track dispersal patterns, officials say.
By JOHN HENDREN, TIMES STAFF WRITER

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon sprayed biological and chemical agents off the coast of San Diego during the Cold War, part of a series of previously undisclosed tests in several states that exposed troops and perhaps thousands of civilians to the compounds, defense officials said Wednesday.

In all, 27 newly disclosed secret tests were conducted in California, Alaska, Florida, Hawaii, Maryland and Utah, officials said. The tests, conducted from 1962 to 1973, were also carried out in Canada and the United Kingdom.

In February 1966, a Navy vessel in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of San Diego was sprayed with methylacetoacetate, or MA, a chemical that irritates the eyes, skin and respiratory tract but is not considered hazardous by the Environmental Protection Agency.

In a second test in the summer of 1968, MA and Bacillus globigii, or BG, were released in the same waters. A bacterium related to anthrax, BG was later found to infect people with weak immune systems. No civilians are thought to have been exposed to harmful agents in those tests because they were carried out over the ocean.

It was the first time the Pentagon has acknowledged that it used the agents on U.S. soil and that civilians may have been exposed during the tests. The Defense Department previously revealed that 10 tests were carried out during the Cold War on U.S. ships to determine how they would perform under chemical or biological attack.

The Defense Department released the information at a House Veterans Affairs Committee meeting Wednesday; some elements were leaked to reporters Tuesday.

Military officials insisted that none of the agents used near civilians was thought at the time to be dangerous, although some—including E. coli bacteria—were later found to be harmful, even deadly.

In 21 tests on land and six newly reported tests at sea overseen by the Deseret Test Center at Ft. Douglas, Utah, live biological agents and lethal chemicals—including sarin and VX—were sprayed not only in the six states, but at or near military facilities in Puerto Rico, Canada, the United Kingdom, the Marshall Islands, Baker Island and over international waters in the Pacific Ocean.

The 37 tests disclosed so far affected about 5,000 service members at sea and 500 on land from 1962 to 1973, defense officials said. The Pentagon has notified about 1,400 of those soldiers about the secret testing regimen, dubbed "Project 112."

New data has been released on previously top secret field tests of chemical and biological weapons testing by the USA. Code named, Project 112, the United States held open-air biological and chemical weapons tests in Alaska, Hawaii, Maryland and Florida.

In a series of 28 field tests, multiple weapons were tested to determine how to defend against the weapons and how potent the weapons would be. om Between 1965 and 1967, the military used artillery shells and bombs filled with the nerve agents sarin and VX in Alaska. Project SHAD, Shipboard Hazard and Defense, was conducted by the Navy. Descriptions of Biological and Chemical Weapons Testing

Analysis: Veterans groups are contacting Congress in an effort to find out what the potential health effects are to former military men who were used in these experiments. There is an estimate that 3,000 servicemen were exposed to these weapons during testing but only 1,500 have been contacted by the Department of Defense in an effort to alert them to the potential hazards to their health. http://www.hk94.com/weblog/index.php?p=51&c=1
http://www.govsux.com/wmd.htm
http://madison.indymedia.org/newswire/display/1519
http://www.rense.com/general36/history.htm

--FACT (proven by Congressional testimony) that it's the us gov that we need fear most-
because they use WMD on our own soldiers sailors and citizens:

Proof that terrorists are capable of long term planning.
During the Carter Administration;
the Air Marshall Program was in effect.
would be hijackers were met with armed Federal Marshalls.
(.44special against a box cutter)

Liddy dole ended the Air Marshall Program in 1981 (Raygun's Sec Trans)
20 years later her actions bore RW fruit:
Op Northwoods went off without a hitch.
No air marshalls on those planes used in Amerika's Reichstag fire.

posted 05-30-2003 02:12 PM            

30 years ago...I could careless...and I SAID another nation...dolt...your comprehension skills are that of larry's...hmmm...shitoga...larry ?

nawg...

also saddam did gas the kurds...that's undisputeable...

posted 05-30-2003 02:16 PM            

Seeker sez......

".....when's the last time the U.S used bio-chemical weapons on another nation ?"

Try the UNITED STATES...ON IT'S OWN PEOPLE...smart ass.

Or how about BIOHAZARD.. DEPLETED URANIUM?

Or how about BIOHAZARD.. AGENT ORANGE?

posted 05-30-2003 02:21 PM            

what is it about you pinko's and answering a straight question ?

why can't you do it ?

posted 05-30-2003 02:48 PM            

D-E-P-L-E-T-E-D U-R-A-N-I-U-M

Oh but..support the troops ONLY when they go to war...but F^(K EM when they get home right Seeker?

And all those fresh pink lungs of Iraqi boys and girls getting filled up with radioactive dust...hmmmmm. How "liberating".
I guess it's for the "Homeland", right Seeker?

Seeker:

"I really don't care what happened 30 years ago."

posted 05-30-2003 04:36 PM            

Proof that Mech is not only a looser, but a dumbass as well.....

posted 05-30-2003 04:42 PM            

I still think a lesson on the bush tax cut would do them some good...

nothing but good in the economy right now...

and back to the topic that mech hi-jacked the missing trillion....everyone knows that money went for up keep on the captured UFO's from years back...

DUH !

posted 05-30-2003 09:18 PM            

"--So Mech, sitting in his rundown tenement building, eating twinkies all day, living off government checks...--"

First of all..my living conditions are more than adequate and in a great location..SECOND..I haven't ate a "Twinkie" since middle school..too much sugar...bad for the immune system. THIRD, I don't "live off government checks"..I work part time contracting my maintenance services. I don't have kids or a car payment so I'm doing fine in the Bu$h economy...so far.

FW: "--- thinks whining on a chemtrail message board about depleted uranium and Chinese made American flags and agent orange...and our horrible government is going to do anything about anything?"--"

At the very MINIMUM it will piss you off and others like you. Plus it may help you understand that people don't buy the BULLSHIT coming out of the mouths of this FOUL, CORRUPT government.

MABYE...

posted 05-30-2003 10:08 PM            

Iraq's helicopter fleet consists (or better term, consisted) of Russian Mil Mi-3/8/17/24 helicopters and French Gazelle helicopters.

I'm sure you did read somewhere that Iraq operated UH-1 helicopters. This is partly true as I stated above. But numerous sources reported them as captured from the Iranians (who we sold hundreds of UH-1 and AH-1 helicopters to). They were also the exact same type of UH-1 (Bell 214) that Iran had. So I think the rumors you heard are misleading, at best.

The US was an extremely minor supplier of the Iraqi military machine. It is true that the US authorized the sale of biological research-grade pathogens (the type used in hospitals for study) that were eventually used to aid the Iraqi bio warfare program. On the face of it, the Iraqis said they were going to use if for medical purposes, and the pathogens were of medical grade (not weaponized). Whether anyone within the US knew what they would ultimately do with it is up for debate.

The US did NOT sell Iraq chemical weapons. Since the 1970s, the US chemical weapon stockpile has been systematically destroyed. Not only is this well documented, but I have a close family member who's a project manager for such destruction programs.

The US has never sold Iraq any outright military hardware (ie missiles, tanks, jeeps, helicopters, etc). 99% of the US support arrived in the form of loan guarantees and other economic aid. There is a report out there that indicated that following one transaction, Iraq proceeded to buy Soviet weaponry through Egypt. In this indirect way we "armed" Iraq.

But it pales in comparison to other countries involvment. Russia not only sold Iraq the majority of its weaponry, but also sent advisors to train the Iraqis and develop their doctrine. The Russians also directly supplied the Iraqi military with thousands of chemical artillery and rocket rounds, and gave them technical expertise in how to manufacture their own stockpile.

There's no way the US could have sold Iraq chemical artillery or missile rounds because the Iraqis used standard Russian artillery tubes and rocket lauchers, which use a different sized shell. It would have been like someone giving you a bunch of 9MM bullets for your .38 caliber pistol. Won't work well.

The French also sold Iraq a bunch of military hardware, including helicopters and fighter aircraft. They were also helpful in Iraq developing the engineering support for the Mirage F1 "drone" that was designed to dispense chemical or bio weapons.

Germany provided much of Iraq's communications equipment and some air defense equipment.

What did America do? We sold them some research-grade pathogens that any medical research professional could purchase in a petri dish. We also sold them some other stuff that can only best be described as "dual use", ie it can be used for good or bad things. Like computers, etc.

posted 05-30-2003 10:16 PM            

By the way...we sold Saddam his nerve gas too...not just "Lab Anthrax".

Anyway you slice it, America should have never done buisness with Saddam in the first place.

I won't make excuses for them, that's for sure.

posted 05-30-2003 10:29 PM            

You claim that we SOLD him the helicopters.

What actually happened is Iraq captured a coupled downed UH-1s and fixed them up for a short period of time.

Just like we operate a few Russian helicopters that we captured from Iraq, it would be wrong to say that Russia sold them to us, because they didn't.

posted 05-31-2003 09:49 AM            

I read that we sold him the UH-1s to fight IRAN and the Iatollah regime...who was our #1 enemy during the late 70's early 80's.

What he did with those aircraft afterwards obviously was not part of the plan.

FART-talker,

Saddams WMD program had been going downhill since Gulf War#1, just like his military was. Most of his good hardware, tanks and fighters were destroyed in the 1st Gulf war.

Whatever remaining WMD he had either got buried to rot in the ground or was intentionally destroyed.

Iraq was not a threat to the United States as far as I'm concerned.

That war was about OIL, CONTRACTS and CONTROL. Not much else.

As far as "liberation"?

The Universities and schools are looted and damaged. Most of the major cities are without power and water, kids are getting typhoid, and diptheria because sanitation is now less thn spectacular, their economic system and currency is gone....

Sound almost like Afganistan.

Just bomb the country and leave the people to clean up the mess. No "marshal plan" for Arabs I guess.

No wonder those people are running back to the Mullahs to join the Jihad. There is not much hope when your country is destroyed.

Got to keep terrorism flourishing somehow...after all there is MONEY to be made.

FOUND A NEW SCAM TO EXTEND THE "COLD WAR"

posted 05-31-2003 05:54 PM            

Simple for rational perople to understand.

*1. What it does is shift the tax burden to the working people
The Bush admin spends more than any administration has ever spent before.
They pass tax cuts for the wealthy, so that group are no longer paying their share.
Somebody else has to pay in the money the rich don't pay.
The working poor (middle class) have to make up the difference.
*2. What it is about is paying back those who bought the election for herr bush.
RNC
fund source to pay for Nader commercials-
funds to pay Republican staffers to fly down to FL & riot, to intimidate elections officials.
funds to pay Rush and other demagogues millions to spout propaganda on radio and TV.
funds to finance BinLaden and prepare the WTC for demolition

the ultimate payback:
America's Reichstag Fire and 'bushwars':
Wars to payback the military for stuffing ballot boxes with absentee mil ballots CAST AFTER THE ELECTION
Billions funneled into the mil industrial complex.
Fat kickbacks and padded paychecks for 'retired' mil who now (always did) work for "Defense Contractors".

BTW $eeker:
what part of:
>Remember the accusation that Saddam used WMD on his own people?<
was too complicated for you?

BTW 'socialism in amerika'
"Defense Industry" is truely a socialist establishment.
The DOD decides what they will produce.
Where they shall produce it.
How workers shall be treated and how much pay.
Prices are set by DOD.
Markets are chosen by DOD.

Government control of industry is socialism!

The military industrial complex is the only true socialism in Amerika!

posted 05-31-2003 06:01 PM            

*1. What it does is shift the tax burden to the working people
The Bush admin spends more than any administration has ever spent before.
They pass tax cuts for the wealthy, so that group are no longer paying their share.
Somebody else has to pay in the money the rich don't pay.
The working poor (middle class) have to make up the difference

the working poor is NOT the middle class...

the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.09% of income taxes....

posted 05-31-2003 06:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:
So Mech, You're claiming we sold Saddam anthrax and other WMDs, but you now assume he didn’t have any? See any contradictions in your reasoning process here? (Must be the sugar high from all those twinkies..)

---

Link to receipt
for those WMD Bush (the first) sold to Saddam
http://www.newsmax.com/images/stories/cdc_letter.gif

posted 05-31-2003 06:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
gosh where do I start...

*1. What it does is shift the tax burden to the working people
The Bush admin spends more than any administration has ever spent before.
They pass tax cuts for the wealthy, so that group are no longer paying their share.
Somebody else has to pay in the money the rich don't pay.
The working poor (middle class) have to make up the difference

the working poor is NOT the middle class...

the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.09% of income taxes....

can you do the math shA*toga ?

---

>Well, gosh;<
$eeker started with a lie and went downhill from there.

$eeker must be getting his bogus figures from the Moonie controlled Heritage Foundation.

Truth is that those who own and control 90% of the wealth pay 60% of the taxes.
those (working poor=middle class) who own and control only 10% of the wealth pay 40% of the taxes.

Disproportionate to begin with.

Those who own and control 90%, should pay 90%!

My numbers come from Gramm Rudman

(perhaps, it's just that $eeker like Hitler trusted any loyal 'party member';
and is not really as stupid as he/she/it's posts illustrate)

$eeker,
Your team leader has failed you.

How will you ever get that director's chair from the RNC posting such blatently false information?

$eeker posted:
>the working poor is NOT the middle class...<

There is the working class and the investment class.
Those of us who work for a living are the working poor!

posted 05-31-2003 06:59 PM            

well that may have been true back in the day there shitoga...

show me a GAO document or link to, backing up your claim...

remember what I said about bringing a knife to a gunfight...

posted 05-31-2003 09:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
what happened yesterday (30 years ago) does not mean the same is happening today...continually regurgitating the past is not beneficial in moving towards the future...

---

Past actions are reliable indicators of future actions.

eg:
Eisenhower Admin overthrew the democratically elect gov't of Iran to put the RW dictator 'Shah' in power, to serve the US oil interests.

Nixon unleashed a rightwing police state which broke all laws in illegally supressing the anti-war movement,
spied on law abiding citizens, bruglarized and murdered citizens.

Bush (the first) used a PR firm to phoney up bogus justification for a war against Iraq, to boost his poll ratings.

Johnson let the US Military fake a terror attack on Navy ships in the Guld of Tonkin,
despite tha fact that only US military forces were involved;
it was used as an excuse to attack a soverign nation.
The President and his supporters (Brown & Root) made millions off the war expendatures.

"those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. - Santayana

$eeker; -forget that we're the bad guys-
and forget the deliberate harm to America we've done in the past-
("Rule or ruin."- Newt Gingrich)
let the past be the past-
and bend over while we do it to you again!

(But we'll continue to rake up the past in our relentless criticisn or the other side!)

posted 05-31-2003 10:25 PM            

Show me proof that Iraq operated UH-1 helicopters SOLD to them by the United States.

I'm a military pilot and I've been very well briefed on what Iraq does operate in its Air Force. I'm very confident that you either read the story wrong, or your source is wrong.

IRAN, not Iraq, was sold several hundred UH-1 and AH-1 helicopters while the Shah was in power, and those aircraft were subsequently used to fight Iraq. Some where shot down and captured by the Iraqi military. Nowhere can I find a single source that verifies your claim that the US sold Iraq any helicopters, nor any source that claims Iraq operates any Western-made helicopters other than the French Gazelle and Allouette helicopters.

I tell you what...find me a link...any link...that talks about Iraqi operated UH-1 helicopters.

I flew UH-1s for 3 years, and I have a number of books on the aircraft. I see that we have sold UH-1s to countries such as Germany, Canada, Honduras, Iran and Pakistan, but nowhere on that list is Iraq.

posted 06-01-2003 06:46 PM            

FACT is that the US Gov't sold Saddam the chemical (WMD) weapons.

I posted the link already, to proof.

Only the US 'Defense Department' has used chemical weapons repeatedly against it's own people!

Who gives a damn who sold Saddam the helicopters to spray
the chemical death that the USA sold him?

Blather about who sold the CIA hind helicopters, as that mattered either.