posted 06-02-2003 03:25 PM               

"The Force can have a STRONG influence on the WEAK MINDED."

And it's almost entertaining listening people PARROT current NAZI PROPAGANDA against muslims.

The CIA created USAma and the Taliban.

Plug "ISRAEL FUNDED HAMAS" into a search engine to see how phony 'jews' who worship the SATANIC TALMUD have a clear HISTORY of funding and setting up their own boogeymen!

Then tie that into the fact that these same scumbag ZIONISTS literally INFEST Jr.'s administration and you find out why he operates like he does.

Hitler on steroids!

posted 06-02-2003 03:34 PM            

your about as informed on religion as most men are on women's monthly cycles...

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001114.html

you too larry the only reason you are not behind bars is your clinically insane in the mem~brain...a kook...wingnut...dufus...

read up screw up...

Islamic Fundamentalism;
???

Origins of Islam

Founded by a militarily and politically successful tribal group in Arabia.

Originated in 7th centuary Arabia, at a time when the the two imperial blocks, Byzantium and Persia were weakening. The majority of Arabic society was nomadic. The cities were small urban islands in a vast rural sea. Islam was the product of the process of change affecting the cities of Mecca and Medina which were becoming increasingly important trading centers. From the 6th centuary the Meccan merchants, a small percentage of the population had amassed great wealth, within a few families.

"The emergence of private property disrupted social life as bedouin values bsed on collective ownership were set aside by a merchant class that had little time for the nomadic emphasis on communalism, solidarity, equality and mutual responsibility" (Phil Marshall).

This lead to hostility to the merchants from the rest of the population who did not share in the wealth of the new elite and demanded respect for the old values.

Muhammad ibn Abdallah, the founder of Islam a member of one of the most alienated groups, a powerful Meccan tribe the Quraysh.

"Though he married a wealthy women and eventually became a prosperous trader, when he began to preach in AD610 is main concern was to remedy the injustices of Meccan society"(Phil Marshall). He called on Meccans to accept one God whose prophet, Muhammad himself had been sent to convey the divine law and and who would weith mans conduct on a 'Day of Judgement'

Much of Muhammad's preachings are directed towards the Meccan princes, calling them to fulfill their traditional obligations and look after the weaker members of the tribe. Muhammad did not want to subvert commerce, he wanted to reform it. He himself was a business man and his teachings reflect a business man's perspective and interests.

Although Meccan society was falling under the domination of a new merchant class, it lacked central authority. There was no state. There was no legal system, no political of administrative apparatus.

Muhammads preachings therefore were a serious threat to the city elite, as he was propossing the establishment of a Meccan state governed by himself.

Muhammad and his followers were forced to leave Mecca and eventually moved to Medina, a city 300 miles to the north (in 622). There was tension within the community due to conflict between rival tribes. Muhammad set out to provide a unified group, establising the umma a sort of popular front, which put the status of Muslim above that of tribe loyality.

"This agreement not only brought the a community into existance but laid the foundations of a state"

The umma became wealthy following attacks on Meccan caravans, soon the umma dominated Medina. They then set out to expand and following a series of battles routed opposition from the Meccans. A sucession of Arabian towns and tribes declared themself for Muhammad.

Within eight years of their expulsion the city, Mecca had become the center of a rapidly growing islamic economy.

The empire spread at an enormous rate, within a dozen years it covered much of North Africa, Syria, Iraq and Iran. This success was due in part to the decline of Byzantine (Roman) and Persian rule, but also because the Islamic forces were often seen as liberators.

Initially the Islamic forces imposed a relatively modest tax burden on conquered terrorities. It did not occupy or take away peasants land and it did not compel them to change their religon.

As it spread it adapted to local environments and Islam diversified. Islam of Iran had a different character to Islam of India. Within countries different variations existed; the Islam of the ruling dynasty, the Islam of the local ruling group, and that of movements and sects who sought freedom for the mass of a population suffering under an imperialist yoke.

Embraces all who have accepted the faith regardless of nationality.

"Christianity, associated at its foundation with a subordinated, rebel group makes a clear distinction between state and religion"

Islam makes no such distinction. Sharia law is based on the Quran and the sunna (the sayings and doings of the prophet as recorded in the hadiths ) provides the frame work for policy and society.

Though there are and always have been disagreements over how literal the interperation of Sharia law should be. The Sunni tradition represents a more pragmatic tendency, the Shia tradition, dominant in Iran is more orthadox.

Scope of Islamic world

Islam and Imperialism
Islam and Fascism

Islam today; Iran

Saudi Arabia

Fundamentalist before Iran, ally of the US

Libya

Egypt

Algeria

Algeria, a former French colony won independance 30 years ago.

In December 1991 Islamic Fundalmentalists won a democratically run election. A militarily backed government, supported by many liberals in the west, over threw this election. Further elections were called off in Jan 1992 by the generals to prevent a victory by the Fundamentalist Islamic Salvation Front.

Since then Muslim radicals have been fighting to overthrow and set up an Islamic republic. In the past two years more than 3,000 (official figures, actual numbers may be twice that) have died. Fundamentalists have targeted professionals, including lecturers, writers and doctors. About a dozen journalists have been killed. Hundreds have left for neighbouring Morocco or Tunsia or to Europe. More than 30 Foreigners have been killed, provoking a mass exodus. Foreign companies have cut their personal. Liberal papers have closed down.

Such is the strength of support for the GIA the armed islamic group that parts of the country, including districts of the capital have become no go areas for the police. Millitants set up road blocks mirroring those run by the police. In towns in the south of Algiers, they have in effect replaced local authorities.

Fundamentalists have threated to kill unveiled women. In the south a 17 year old who refused to wear a veil was killed as an example. Last Thursday two school girls waiting at a bus stop near Algeriers were shot dead. At least 29 women have been killed.

The word "Liberal" is given new meaning. The Organistion of Free Yound Algerians (OAJL), a militant squad of liberal youth has vowed it will kill 30 veiled women or an equal number of men supporting Islamic beards for each women killed for not wearing a veil.

Anti islamics have claimed they are setting up armed groups and self defence cells to resist the Fundamentalists, bringing a thirds force into the conflict which has pitted the security forces against the fundamentalists.

Most Algerians expect the government to fall to the fundamentalists.

Turkey
Ataturk launched the secular state in 1923, seperating mosque and state. All aspects of Sharia law were eliminate and efforts were made to minimise the influence of religion on the private life of many voters. Arabic script was abolished as was the veil. Most of Turkeys 60 million people are muslims but fundamentalism is seen "as much as a bogeyman to the educated middle class there as it is in the west" Turks do not like being mistaken for Arabs or Iranians.

Liberal journalist, Ugar Mumcu was killed by Islamic millitants in a car bomb last year.

In power at the moment is the True Path Party commited to brutally supressing the Kurdish uprising and austerity packages, in coalition with the Social Democrats. (True Path Party won 22.8%). In recent municipal elections, the Islamic Fundalmentalist party, Refah won 18% of popular vote, including the mayorship in Istanbul and Ankara the capital. This was twice their previous vote attained five years ago. They now control 28 of Turkeys 76 municipalities. In the in the central city of Konya where they won nearly half the vote, alcohol has been banned and women are under pressure to wear the chandor. Believed to be funded by Libya, Iran and Saudi Arabia, they are anti NATO, anti Zionist and opposed to Turkey joining the European Union.

Refah are presenting a moderate face, refraining from openly advocating an Islamic government saying it supports only a "Fair Regime"

Why did they get support in the election?

-revulsion at corruption of established parties

-anger at poverty,

many voters poor uneducated migrants from the countryside

-defence of familly values under attack from magazines and TV

-in Kurdish south many voted as an alternative to the pro-Kurdish Democracy party who boycotted the elections.

On Thursday, thousands demonstrated outside the Supreme Electoral Board (there have been accucations of vote rigging) shouting secular slogans.

and Black Nationalism

Islam and Women

alliance with the Catholic Church

References:

Islam- oppression and revolution by Phil Marshall. Internalional Socialism 40.

The Familly by Dr John Harris. (1992) Andromeda Press

posted 06-02-2003 03:57 PM            

As far as my beliefs go..AS I SAID..are my own. My relationship with God and Jesus the Christ are personal and I won't FORCE IT ON SOMEONE BY F**King WITH THE LAW in order to push an agenda.

Like it or not Seeker, there is more than one religion and all of them have their own ideas about God.

posted 06-02-2003 04:17 PM            

Who are YOU to say what is right?

posted 06-02-2003 10:07 PM            

Let me tell you something asshole,

I have worked in surgery for about 10 years now, have you ever had to clean up a stillborn baby, have you ever had to present a dead kid to the parents, just so they have some closure?

Mech you have now shown that you are one of the biggest assholes I have EVER seen. You have no meaning of life. You are so f$#%@n stupid that you don't even know that life begins at conception! If this is edited then so be it but YOU people don't know what or when life begins. Don't EVEN tell me that an unborn fetus is not a life!

You can cut and paste all the bullshit you want, but you will NEVER know when life begins and when life ends. ROFLMAO was correct when that person said you need a bullet in the skull. You are nothing but a cut and paste waste. You and Shitoga both need to be put to rest! You two along with a few others are wasting oxygen that all the rest of us need to live.

posted 06-02-2003 11:56 PM            

before anyone gets banned I would hope that given this is an extremely charged emotional and personal issue for some of us...proper perspective would be given reagarding some of the comments made...

I'm not offended by the post...

I don't agree with the infered violence...

but I sure as hell understand....

posted 06-03-2003 05:30 AM            

Have you any respect for the Police and Fire Department personnel who answered Rudolph's 911 calls.
"there is a bomb...."
Calls made specifically to get cops and firemen into the blast radius.
Or any respect for the innocent children and patients of women's Health clinic who were there for other procedures, yet got injured by the non-christian Rudolph's bombs?

Jesus never spoke one word about the unborn or ever mentioned abortion,

"Matthew 15
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Jesus never spoke one word about the unborn or ever mentioned abortion,
yet he was specific and eloquent to soldiers who asked him
"What shall we do""
Luke 3:14
"And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man,..."

How can anyone who claims to follow Jesus teachings directly and clearly do the opposite of what He specifically taught?

answer:
They follow another gospel instead of that of Jesus Christ;

"Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."

The word 'abortion' never appears in the Bible.
The word 'unborn', only once;
(in context of in the womb) only one of 16 translations, on my shelves)
in the context of the almost full term twins Jacob and Esau.

The anti-abortion crow are following a commandment of men, not of God;
else it would be in the Scriptures, clearly stated for all to read and follow.

'Holds up a cross
to confront those who take Jesus name in vain
and backs away from the abortion fanatics who support 'killing for christ''

posted 06-03-2003 03:40 PM            

These same kind of people have no problem putting someone to death in the electric chair and yet they have the gall to call themselves "pro-life".

So we see.."Mech needs a bullet in the head".

Sounds pretty pro-life to me.

As far as abortion is concerned? It should remain legal. If a doctor told my sister that she would die unless she had an abortion, I would want her to have an abortion.

posted 06-03-2003 03:48 PM            

called an attitude adjustment down these parts...

mech God gave us a plan for success happiness and growth...

posted 06-03-2003 04:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
I don't think you need a bullet in the head...but maybe if someone beat the livin' shit out of you, you'd have a better persective on life

called an attitude adjustment down these parts...

mech God gave us a plan for success happiness and growth...

who wrote the ten commandments mech ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
mech God gave us a plan for success happiness and growth...
beat the livin' shit out of...someone?

---

Beat the living shit out of someone is the teachings of your dark lord/ not of Jesus Christ.

Who wrote the 10 commandments?

Moses

There are far more than just 10 commandments in the Bible.
eg:
-go into your closet and pray-
-love thy neighbor as thyself-
-do harm to no man-
-sell all you have and give to the poor -
-love them that hate you-

There are hundreds of commandments.

You err badly by getting your only perception of God from Cecil B DeMille movies and from the bigoted demagogues standing at pulpits.

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
(Whole Chapter: Acts 7 In context: Acts 7:47-49)
Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
(Whole Chapter: Acts 17 In context: Acts 17:23-25)

posted 06-03-2003 04:55 PM            

isn't that the dude who made the cadillac ?

check your facts on the commandments commie...

and like the professor clearly pointed out when Jesus found that things were being sold in the temple...he kicked ass...

nuff said doltus maximus...

posted 06-04-2003 07:30 PM            

Jesus teaching to "do harn to no man" was somehow observed by making a weapon and attacking merchants who were legally working on temple grounds?

this horse thief who charged his disciples to steal a donkey for him to ride into Jerusalem

One of us is totally out of contact with both scriptures and reality/
and it ain't me!

I've got both scriptures and current reality on my side!

You have only the RNC and Rush Limbaugh on your side.

the truth is on my side

posted 06-04-2003 11:59 PM            

Mech you horses ass, I made that statement in reguards to your assinine observation that a fetus is not a life. Come work with me for a week or two then tell me a fetus is not a life.

Seeker, Good to be back in the saddle. Been offline for a while cause of domestic issues.

LuLu, thanks for editing my post, I will NEVER let that happen again. When I read the idiot's words something inside snapped.
But I meant EVERY word of it.

posted 06-05-2003 01:31 AM            

Neither is it a fully conscious human being.

Living yes...on the most basic levels

Like I said it's more like an exaggerated zygote.

posted 06-05-2003 02:10 AM            

your just being idiotic...and really you should learn to accept when your wrong on a subject...it's really quite unbecoming...

for the readers benefit...this gif shows how 50 strands are the difference...and visually makes a mockery of TOE...regarding humans...

posted 06-05-2003 04:10 AM            

I don't see it as a win/lose argument. abortion is still legal. Too bad for you.

PS: I'm not a Darwinist and not a follower of TOE Jackass.

Somehow this thread got lost from it's topic..

posted 06-05-2003 04:20 PM            

It's an exercise in futility because it is axiomatic, that one who does not have "reason" or logic or rationality as the basis for their thought process cannot be reasoned with.

posted 06-05-2003 04:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Proud Veteran:
Since when is shAtoga a bible thumper?

---

Been a
teens- Southern Baptist divinity student
(before I enlisted and volunteered for the nam)
20's-Pentacostal lay minister at the same time I counseled for V V A W
30's- Mormon Stake Missionary 1988-til death
and ordained to both priesthoods.

having read the scriptures (in numerous translations)
I feel different than those who blindly follow the opinions of their 'ministers'

Read the books of faith!

Both the Bible and the Koran are against the killing of innocents.

Both condemn murder.

Neither ever mentions abortion.

That cop killed when
Rudolph's terrorist bomb exploded in that Womens' Health Clinic in Alabama was a Christian BTW