posted 06-16-2003 09:48 PM            

You love the unborn but could care less about the living.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Mech on 06-16-2003] [/B][/QUOTE]

There are alot of live children here that die daily, hungry, homeless and lacking anyone who cares, why not take up one as a big bro or sis and help change the life of the living . Abortion sucks true, hurts the mother beyond repair at times, but to be made to have a child? I read once that in old times the punishment for murder was to be put to death but the punishment for causing a woman to lose the "fruit" of her womb was as the husband ordered, wonder where I read that?

posted 06-16-2003 11:13 PM            

mech actually page 1 this thread...

"They are fetuses or exaggerated embryos."

so we were both wrong but I was closer !

21 weeks is on the threshold of existing outside the womb...

no psyche warfare here chief

just the facts...life begins at conception...

In all fairness to the newbie crystal...if women had any control these days abortion would not be around at all...

I have a proposal...women who want to sleep around and have unprotected sex, have a hysterectomy....

then atleast children won't suffer because a couple of weak folks could not control their hormones...and cough up the 2 bits for a condom at the local gas station....

a little cut and paste FYI from my bad self

When does the unborn baby's heart begin to beat?

The heartbeat begins between the eighteenth and twenty-fifth day.

When does the brain begin to function?

Electrical brain waves have been recorded as early as forty days.

How early can a baby survive outside the mother's womb?

Currently, twenty weeks is considered the accepted minimum. However, this time will be reduced as medical technology continues to improve.

What about cases of rape and incest?

Pregnancy from rape is extremely rare. A study of one thousand rape victims who were treated after the rape reported no pregnancies. There are no known studies of incest cases. Medically, we know pregnancy in these cases would be rare. As reasons for legalizing abortion rape and incest are nothing more than emotional screens used by those profiting from abortion. But we must approach the victim of rape or incest with great compassion. The woman has been subjected to an ugly trauma, and she needs love, support and help. But she has been the victim of one violent act. Should we now ask her to be a party to a second violent act -that of abortion? Unquestionably, many would return the violence of killing an innocent baby for the violence of rape. But, before making this decision, remember that most of the trauma has already occurred. She has been raped. That trauma will live with her all her life. Furthermore, this girl did not report for help, but kept this to herself. For several weeks or months, she has thought of little else. Now, she has finally asked for help, has shared her upset, and should be in a supportive situation. more information

But what about the child with disease who will die a slow death or live his life as a burden to his family?

Do you believe the new "ethic" should be that we kill the suffering or burdensome? Some of these cases are tragic, some are also inspirational. We cannot assume the responsibility for killing an unborn child simply because the child has not yet been seen in public. The child's place of residence does not change what abortion does - kill a human being.

What about the population boom? We can hardly feed the people of the world now!

True, the population of the world is growing, but population is not much of a problem in the United States. With a birth every 8 seconds and a death every 11 seconds, the U.S. population is growing at less than one percent per year. (www.census.gov)

Population growth or decline compares replacement of the current number of reproductive age individuals with the number of babies being born. By this measure, the United States is now in a sharp population decline.

How can a girl give up her own baby for adoption and go through life never knowing what is happening to her child?

Which is better to remember, "I gave my baby life. And because I loved him, I gave him into the arms of a loving couple" - or to remember, "I selfishly ended my baby's life?"

http://www.abortionfacts.com/abortion/q_facts.asp

posted 06-17-2003 06:10 AM            

According to Maricopa County Superior Court records, O'Brien did not contact police about the accident after a fellow priest informed him Sunday night that detectives were looking for him and the vehicle. On Monday morning, the bishop made phone inquiries about replacing his damaged windshield before police confronted him.<
>The front end of O'Brien's car was damaged on the passenger side and the windshield was concaved and fractured. Reed is listed as 6 feet tall and 235 pounds.< http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special16/articles/0504priests041.html
>O'Brien told The Republic in November that at least 50 priests, former priests and church employees were accused of molesting children in the past 30 years. He refused to identify them, citing privacy concerns.<

--so much for the sanctity of Mr. Reed's life!--
Florida
>June 10, 2003
U.S. anti-abortion activist charged with molesting 15-year-old girl
PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) -- An associate of two men who murdered abortion doctors in the 1990s was arrested Tuesday on charges he molested a 15-year-old girl at a home he operates.
State troopers arrested John Burt, 65, at a rest stop about 275 kilometres east of Pensacola.

Burt runs Our Father's House, a home for troubled girls and women and investigators said they are seeking other potential victims at the home.
Burt was convicted of resisting arrest in 1986 when he pushed his way into an abortion clinic and broke equipment. He was sentenced to 141 days of time served.
In 1993, Burt was leading a protest at a Pensacola abortion clinic when Michael Griffin, who had volunteered at Our Father's House, fatally shot Dr. David Gunn.
Burt was with Paul Hill in 1994 when Hill photographed an abortion doctor he later shot and killed. Hill was convicted of murdering Dr. John Bayard Britton and his bodyguard, James Barrett and received a death sentence.

<
they excise these truth pages from the internet quickly http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Xbg0niwhTBMJ:www.canoe.ca/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Anti-Abortion-Molester.html+anti+abortion+activist+charged+with+molesting&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 www.tcpalm.com/tcp/state_news/0,1651,TCP_1021,00.html www.wear3.com/news/Stories/June/ 0610/johnburt0610.shtml

Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Link to hundreds of American cases of "Right to Life" leaders who were child molesters.
http://www.yourlawyer.com/practice/panews.htm?parea=Other%20Topics

posted 06-18-2003 12:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
hebrews 11:11

jerk

---

$eeker;
self described as a jerk;
proves his description accurate by quoting a totaly innocuous scripture:

Hebrews 11
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

How that justifies child molestation and murder is unclear: "jerk"

posted 06-18-2003 01:31 AM            

you and larry both have a long way to go....

posted 06-18-2003 02:42 AM            

I quoted the scripture you cited,
yet you claim it says something other than what it clearly does.

Your cult must have washed your brain totally clean of all reason and intelligence.

Does your arm spontaneously snap up in a "zieg" everytinme you see your lord and master bush?

Either quote a relevant scripture or give up any pretense that you know anything at all about the teachings of Christ!

you 'kill-for-christ' nazis are really iritating to real Christians..

but then..
Your team leader already knew that when he told you what to post.

I remain,
Mildly amused by your extremist rightwing fascism masquerading as xtianity.

posted 06-18-2003 02:53 AM            

when you choose to I will reply...

(turning head lifting nose and walking)

posted 06-19-2003 09:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theseeker:
you do not seem to understand plain king james english...

when you choose to I will reply...

(turning head lifting nose and walking)

---

Hebrews 11
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Again I ask the rightwing extremist:
"How does this scripture justify child molestation and murder?

Cast a bone to the bonehead?

Yeah:
Ecclesiastes 11
5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Still no justification of child molestation and murder.

Isaiah 66:9
Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Not bring to the death of those who disagree with your RW fanaticism.
Again;
no justification of child molestation and murder.

Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 7 In context: Matthew 7:15-17)

Matthew 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 7 In context: Matthew 7:19-21)

Evil is as evil does.
The
"anti abortion pro-child molesting/ pro-murder movement"
has demonstrated by their actions
by the thousands of child molestations and many murders
they use the pages of the Christian Bible for toilet paper.

posted 06-19-2003 10:32 AM            

seeker thanks, no offense taken, not just a little weird.......alot weird! N ow gotta go take care of 3 kids so will talk more later! Have a good day guys, can't wait til the day comes you men can reproduce!!!!

posted 06-19-2003 11:26 PM            

"read the passage 11 thru :11"....

posted 06-20-2003 10:17 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
Well I didn't find it so bad of what he did.
My veiw of abortion is state sponsored killing and some people can't put up with it anymore. He murders the murderers, er
Like fighting fire with fire, I magine what the world could've been like with an extra 100 million Americans in it, look at it from an economical point of veiw also, see what we have missed? bet not.

---

posted 06-21-2003 05:49 PM            

Sanctity of life?

FYI:
Search term-

THE CUTTING EDGE
The Bible warns genuine Christians to beware of false religious leaders. Jesus and His Apostles warned, warned and warned again that Satan would try to sneak false religious leaders into the Christian Church, and that, if such churches were not alert and discerning, they would be devastated. Further, Jesus and His Apostles taught that this deception would only get worse the closer the world drew to the End of the Age. In fact, spiritual deception is prophesied to become so good, so slick that even the Elect would be deceived were it not for the revealing nature of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 24:24]; Paul warned that the "door" that would open allowing Antichrist to arise could only be opened by the Christian Churches themselves, as the they allowed themselves to be drawn astray by false religious teachers [2 Thessalonians 2:3].
What is a "false prophet" as defined by Scripture? In Matthew 24:11, the word used in Greek is Number 5578, transliterated as "pseudoprophetes". Adam Clarke's Commentary warns that false prophets are "deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ." You see, such false leaders are the true counterfeit -- they look like, act like, and sound like, real ministers of Jesus Christ; but, inwardly, they are "ravening wolves"!
Barclay's Daily Study Bible Commentaries says: "A false leader is a man who seeks to propagate his own version of the truth rather than the truth as it is in Jesus Christ; and a man who tries to attach other men to himself ...."
Matthew Henry's Unabridged Commentary reveals this truth about "false prophets" -- "There should appear false prophets (v. 11-24); the deceivers would pretend to divine inspiration, an immediate mission, and a spirit of prophecy, when it was all a lie. Some think, the seducers here pointed to were ... settled teachers in the church, and had gained reputation as such, but afterward betrayed the truth they had taught, and revolted to error; and from such the danger is the greater, because least suspected. One false traitor in the garrison may do more mischief than a thousand avowed enemies without."
Let us repeat: "One false traitor in the garrison may do more mischief than a thousand avowed enemies without." How can this be possible? Counterfeit false religious leaders look and sound so very genuine they are trusted by a multitude of undiscerning people. In U.S. Army Intelligence, we called such men "Disinformation Agents"; good agents will pour out 75-90% good information, but will mislead at the critical moment, usually at the moment the battle is joined, and the outcome is hanging in the balance.
Jesus and His Apostles warned that, at the End of the Age, the proportion of the people so deceived would be extraordinarily high!
It is here that we need to begin our study.
Jesus warned:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." [Matt 7:15]
"Take heed that no man deceive you." [Matt 24:4 ]
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." [Matt 24:11]
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets ... insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." [Matt 24:24] Now, that is great deception! I bet everyone deceived by such a false religious leader would protest vociferously that THEY could not possibly be one who is so deceived!
"... when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" [Luke 18:8b] The proportion of the people in the flock at the End of the Age who are deceived by these wicked counterfeit false leaders will be so unusually high, Jesus is moved to ask this powerful rhetorical question: "Will I find anyone on earth who is holding to the true Faith"? This is the problem with counterfeit religious teachers: they become deceived themselves, and they lead many unsuspecting souls into Hell. Jesus addressed this issue of the final judgment of false prophets very dramatically, in Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." [Matt 7:21-23]
At the White Throne Judgment, all false religious leaders will stand before Jesus to hear these awful words. Notice that some of these false teachers were so deceived themselves that they actually thought they were going to Heaven; they were so deceived they needed Jesus to set the record straight and tell them exactly why they were not going to Heaven after all! Notice the power of Satan to perform great and "many wonderful works", even casting out devils from people, and even strongly professing the Word of God! Yet, because they continued to deliberately "work iniquity", Jesus never recognized them as genuinely saved.
How much false doctrine or practice does a false religious leader have to exhibit before Jesus rejects him? Conversely, how much false doctrine or actions should followers allow before they reject a religious leader as counterfeit? Jesus tells us that as well:
"Do you not know that [just] a little leaven will ferment the whole lump [of dough]?" [1 Corinthians 5:6]
As I stated earlier, a good disinformation agent will provide 75-90% good information, and sometimes as high as 95%! But, that 5-10% bad information can cost a nation a battle, or a war, and such a small percentage might lead astray a sincere follower of Jesus Christ! This "bad information" would always center on critical false facts about an issue that is core to winning the battle at hand. Remember, rat poison is only 2% arsenic!
The Apostle John warned:
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" [ 1 John 4:1]
"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." [2 John 1:10-11]

The Apostle Paul warned:
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." [Acts 20:29-30]
"Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition)." [2 Thessalonians 2:3; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]
PARABLE OF THE TARES
In my humble opinion, Jesus was speaking right to this issue of false religious prophets at the End of the Age when He uttered the Parable of the Tares. Since this is a very long parable, we shall quote only the parable itself and Jesus' explanation.
Parable
"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also." [Matt 13:24-26]
What is a "tare"? Many in today's Western societies might not really know what a "tare" is, and therefore, will not realize Jesus is speaking here of a counterfeit wheat! A tare is a plant that looked like wheat in every way until the final phase of growth. Only at this final stage will the seeds look different; a genuine wheat will produce a substantial head of brown seeds, but the tare will produce a small head of black seeds. Thus does this illustration perfectly demonstrate the problem with many professing Christians and counterfeit leaders; both will look so much like the genuine wheat that they are deceived and they deceive others. When Jesus' explained this parable, below, He seemed to place an emphasis on the End of the Age, the true harvest of the world. While He certainly meant that all tares of all ages would be revealed at the final harvest, I believe Jesus was hinting here that the situation with tares would become much more of a problem as the End of the Age approached.
Adam Clarke Commentary goes to the root word of "tare" to reveal some shocking facts. He calls tares "bastard wheat"! Listen:
"He who sows this bastard wheat among God's people is here styled God's enemy ... the word 'zunim', or 'zunin', is used for bastard or degenerated wheat; that which was wholly a right seed in the beginning, but afterwards became degenerate." As we go through our treatise, I believe it likely that some of these counterfeit Christian church leaders were a "right seed in the beginning", but "afterwards became degenerate." Now, however, they are serving the Illuminati and their followers are none the wiser.
Explanation of the Parable
"... the tares are the children of the wicked one; that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world ... And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." [Matt 13:37-40, 42]
The tares are the children, the offspring, of the wicked one, Satan. At this current time period, the Illuminati is the driving force for the "wicked one", as they are drawing the world together into the Kingdom of Antichrist, a.k.a., the New World Order. We should expect to see the "tares" of this day -- the counterfeit Christian leaders -- in the employ of the Illuminati, following their lead regarding the most critical issues of the day.

***

so,
they tell you to kill for christ?
so they tell you to hate those who disagree with you.

Where in Christ's teaching are those concepts specifically spelled out?

Just where does he tell us all to vote Republican?

Does anyone other than me actually read their Bibles?

High moral ground?

complete Q&A in one verse:
Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them,
Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

How does support of snipers murdering doctors
and bombers killing innocents at clinics fit:
Do violence to no man,

What Would Jesus Say:
He already said it quite specifically

Do violence to no man,

clinic bombers burn in hell

posted 06-21-2003 11:20 PM            

Professor,

I agree totally.

"wierd how you can sense evil at times."

Just exactly how I feel watching (taping) Pat "Robertson's 700 club.

"I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise.
There needs to be some kind of protection for
the minority which the white people represent now,
and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."
--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92
"Die Deutschen Leute verlangen Schutz!"--Adolph Hitler
The German people demand protection!

Evil!
Incarnate.

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens,
nor should they be considered patriots.
This is one nation under God."-- George Bush

Juden sollte Bürger das Deutschland nicht bedacht werden.
Jews should not be considered citizens of Germany. Adolph Hitler

Evil!
Incarnate.

Nazis and the Republican Party
By Carla Binion
January 28, 2000 |
Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in "Blowback" that after World War II,
Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U. S.
These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees."
Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals
but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas.
The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler.
It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party.< http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/Special_Reports/Nazis/nazis.html http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.htm http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

Evil incarnate!

posted 06-24-2003 12:06 AM            

I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage crystal....or are you "

posted 06-24-2003 12:36 AM            

(reference your post that triggered mine)

a handful know about what you do...or have tenure

shitoga says the rnc gop opp pay me well btw...

care to help with the laundry...you know having a pool is a bad idea...if you don't like doing towels all the time...

posted 09-28-2003 12:50 PM            

by Tess , Unknown News
Sept. 26, 2003

Here's my question... (I've asked this of every conservative I've run across including my sister-in-law. In response, most just call you a liberal and invoke Clinton.)

Do you consider yourself "pro-life"?

The platform of the Republican party is pro-life (vs. pro-choice). The fundamentalist Christians who swamp the airwaves spend countless hours railing against abortion with long diatribes about how precious every life is.

This president values the sanctity of life so much (supposedly) that he can't even bring himself to authorize the use of stem cells from test tube embryos that are going to be destroyed. It doesn't matter that the use of these stem cells could eventually save or improve the lives of millions of people. Is it Pro-life, not pro-living? Is that the nuance I'm missing?

So tell me, how can you call yourself "pro-life" and justify the killing of thousands of innocent people in Iraq? Not to mention hundreds of our own people.

How can you think it's important to save the baby of a crack whore here, but inconsequential that an entire family is wiped out in their sleep over there?

How can you shrug your shoulders and call them "collateral damage"?

How can the life of an unwanted baby (a baby YOU have no intention of raising) with a 15-year-old mother who doesn't even know who the father is, be so important you have to pass laws to protect it, while the life of a newly graduated doctor who happened to be born in the wrong country is expendable?

Where do you draw the line?

What constitutes life? Being an American? Being an ally of America? Saddam was our ally for a long time. We are supposedly outraged by all the people he gassed (with gas we supplied) in 1988. Guess our list of "Lives lost to be outraged about" is a bit behind schedule since at the time we barely noticed. That was back when Colin Powell was Nat'l Security Advisor instead of Secretary of State. Didn't seem to bother him then. Attacking Iraq 15 years after the fact, using it as one of the reasons to justify killing even more people than died back in '88 seems ... dare I say ... hypocritical and somewhat irrational.

So you consider yourself pro-life. The thought of any woman terminating her pregnancy for whatever reason disgusts you. But now you have decided it's OK to attack another country for WHATEVER reason. If killing Iraqis doesn't bother you, does it matter that American lives are being lost in this war? Oh, wait, those are "sacrifices", huh? OK, "sacrifices", and "collateral damage" are acceptable deaths, right?

So are we refining the definition of "life" to be an American of influential heritage? After all, with only one exception, none of the members of the House, the Senate, or the hierarchy of the Bush Administration have sons or daughters in Iraq. A large percentage have never served in a war themselves. How much more cautious would they be if each had to pick a child or grandchild to serve on the frontlines if they voted to declare war on another country? Are the lives of their loved ones above "sacrifice" when deciding about a preemptive war?

posted 09-28-2003 08:35 PM            

but a Priest talked her out of it.

How many unwanted children have grown up in our society?

How many mass murderers have grown up unloved, resented, hated by parents?

who are we to impose our religious beliefs on all others?

I now quote every single word the Bible has to say against abortion:

"_____________________"

I now quote every word Jesus had to say about abortion:
"______________________"

It is not a Christian principle.
It is "another gospel" than than taught by the apostles, and by Jesus.

Paul had words about false prophets preaching "another gospel" than that taught by Jesus.

Did he know that someday child molesters would fervently desire women to bear unwanted children, for them to molest?
(in the name of God)

If abortion is murder (and I do so believe)
why support George Bush?
He supports abortions in cases of rape and incest.
Does the child born of rape or incest not also deserve to live.
What did Jesus Say:
"thou hypocrite"