posted 06-15-2003 03:43 AM            

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You feel strongly about what you believe, I can't fault that, but the way you pass it off as the "the way it is supposed to be" lumps you in the same category as Zionist Jews, fundamentalist Islamics, and everyone else who thinks they've got their direct orders from God

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Could you be more specific? I’m not talking about “beliefs” unless you consider common sense, logic and rationality a belief. Belief is not something you base on facts…When you have facts, there is no need for belief.

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I said "make personal changes to respect everyone's opinion and right to it". I didn't say "make people", but left the idea to the individual to change. You responded with "let's just make no debating in Congress because differing ideas are offensive." Where did you come up with that from what I said?

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Actually, the left has been trying to MAKE (read “force”) people to respect the opinions of everyone except those opinions that disagree with theirs. The left actively tries to censor speech…..They’ve been doing it for years. Remember, we are talking hypothetically about solutions you would enact to solve some of the social problems we have. People are not going to change their behavior just because you ask nicely….If we are to be realistic with our hypothetical scenario, you have to realize that in reality, you’d have to MAKE people conform to your ideas. Most are not going to bury their garbage in their back yard out of their own free will.

The concept of “political correctness” is one way the left has been trying to make people conform to their ideology.

My example of Congress was just that…a sample taken to it‘s ultimate conclusion, because in your world view, you seem to be saying everyone should respect each others opinions and ideas as if all opinions and ideas are equal. They are not. I use congress as an example of two sides debating issues…. I don’t want them agreeing with each other, because the ideas of most liberal Democrats are just plain BAD. This was the point I’m making. I can have respect for you as a human being, but ridicule your ideas…There’s a difference. I don’t need to respect bad ideas. I took it to an extreme example, to illustrate the path where this type of thinking is leading. If everyone respected everyone’s thoughts and ideas, then there would be no debating because expressing differing ideas would be considered disrespectful or offensive. There’s a term for this type of suppression of speech…It’s called “political correctness” That is not a path I want to take.

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You said "Some opinions and beliefs just suck more than others..."- another OPINION of yours.

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Some opinions and beliefs do indeed just “suck” more than others. This is not my opinion…this is fact. I could give you 1000 examples of ideas that are better than others….Getting a massage from a 25 year old Geisha girl is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick…for example.

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"If someone tells me to worship Satan...should I respect that opinion or belief?" Go recheck the definitions of opinion and belief.

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Why should I go recheck the definitions of opinion and belief? What’s your point? Don’t you think worshiping Satan is an example of a bad idea? Should I respect the beliefs of Satan worshipers? Do you see what I’m getting at? Some opinions and beliefs are not worthy of respect.

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Regarding the "burying the garbage" bit: I'm guessing you give 0 thought on waste and landfill issues. Sure, it's not a problem now- but will be and I would like to avoid shafting future generations with our waste.

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So burying waste in our back yards is your solution to the landfill problem….Ooooookaaaay….let‘s let this one speak for itself…

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You said "I will analyze them through the lens of common sense rather than political bias." You are doing neither, you are analyzing through the lens of your political opinion.

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How so? Give a specific example. Everything I’ve said is common sense.

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You are not "for real dialogue", you would rather just hear yourself talk about your opinions- hence your mile-long monologues.

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I’m having a dialogue with you right now, aren’t I?…And notice, my mile long monologues are all mine. They are not cut and pastes. They are true expressions of MY thought. I do think you are actually capable of dialogue though. Mech, Shatoga and Crazy Larry are examples of people who I do not see any evidence of ability to engage in honest dialogue. Yes I am for real dialogue. That is the genuine truth. I like to have real and honest dialogue with people. The problem is that so few people here seem capable of having real dialogue.

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Shatoga brings up an excellent point. If you were to label, as you find so useful, Christ- he would be a radical, left-wing liberal.

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I though this point Shatoga made was very disingenuous and twisted rationalization to fit his agenda. Christ would be no where near a radical left wing liberal if He existed today. Liberals today, do not give…they take. They do not make people rich in spirit or even wealthy in material things, they steal for themselves because liberalism is actually very self serving and self centered in it‘s nature. They spread misery instead of happiness. This is not opinion, this is historical, verifiable fact. They do not believe in one God, and in fact, routinely demonize Christians. Most are atheists. They preach tolerance for perversions such as Bill Clinton (the epitome of perversion)…rather than redemption and cleansing of the spirit. The motto of liberals is….If it feels good…do it. Hardly the path Christ would walk…It’s the path I might be tempted to walk because I’m weak when it comes to resisting fine women…but not Christ..

Liberals today are corruptors of spirit rather than saviors. Liberals today are lying hypocrites for the most part (and that‘s based on simple observation, not insult or political rhetoric)…and I don’t think Christ was anything like that.

Show me a liberal today, and I’ll show you a lying hypocrite. Go ahead…I dare ya….Name a liberal Democrat of your choosing…How bout Carter? Friend of torturer and mass murdering Castro….That Carter? Pick a liberal any liberal…and I’ll show you person who is the opposite of Christ like. Liberalism today, depends on creating an impoverished and completely dependent voting class…..Christ was interested in teaching people personal and moral responsibility…How to not only feed themselves (in the physical and spiritual sense), but give those teachings a thousand fold to others. Christ gave fishing poles to people so they could feed themselves….Liberals would give them half a rotton fish to make the person dependent on their generosity, as a way of gaining power. Liberals today, by harsh contrast, are some of the most greedy, corrupt, selfish, ego centric power hungry people on Earth. I give you Hillary’s book of lies as a case in point. Take Bill Clinton as the primary example, roll model to Democrats and liberals everywhere….What good has this anti-Christ done for anyone but himself? What charity does he donate the $150,000 he makes for each speech, if it's not his own pocket?

In fact, the term liberal is actually a misnomer. Liberals, as the term has come to be defined, are actually not liberal at all in the classic sense. They are a class of people who believe in inflicting restrictions and rules on the rest of society that they don’t believe in abiding by themselves. They see themselves as an elitist ruling class… I notice you throwing the word elitist around…but liberals are the TRUE elitists.

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You said that this country is based on Christian values, and that your views are congruent with the principles this country was founded on. Where did it go wrong?

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Where did WHAT go wrong? I’m not sure I understand your question.

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Those founding fathers were considered fairly radical at that time.

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Yes they were….America was a radical idea. Manifest destiny was a radical idea….Today, it’s a conservative one. Do you agree with the founding fathers Graeme?

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And we're still waiting to hear how you are documented as 98.99% accurate.

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posted 06-15-2003 03:56 AM            

yep talking at you with cut and paste is NOT communication...

and F/W I may disagree with you on form sometimes...but never fashion...conservative is a good color to wear proudly in all seasons...

America was founded on capitalist conservative Christian values....

posted 06-16-2003 12:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by graeme:
Please define 'conservatism' and 'liberalism' in the most objective terms possible for me. Seems like people have different ideas on what they mean.

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My pensions allow me to have more time and much more intellectual freedom.

there is a 'Liberal bashing topic'.

(kind of like 'christianity defined by satanists' eg)
where this is discussed.

Free thinkers will actually visit the link and read.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001186.html

posted 06-21-2003 12:07 PM            

Example paraphrased from this forum of openminded debate vs closed minded

Open minded:
personA "Chemtrails ..etc."
personB "No such thing as chemtrails.etc."
personA "Just look up in the sky and see for yourself."
personB "Yes there are contrails, but I disagree about chemtrail hypothesis..etc."
Openminded

closedminded:
personA "chemtrails..etc."
personC "No such thing as chemtrails..."
personA "Just look up in the sky and see for yourself."
personC "I don't need to look..they just don't exist."
closedminded.

difference is the refusal to even view the other person's evidence.
The "My mind is made up!
Don't try to confuse me with facts!"

versus the openminded:
"I've examined your evidence and disagree with your conclusions."

Freethinker? in practice.

Another example is ALabama's (R) governor Riley's plan to raise taxes.
The xtian coalition advised everyone to vote for Riley because he would not raise their taxes.
They now say it's OK for a (R) to raise taxes but still wrong for a (D) to raise taxes.
You see it was 'just tax and spend big government' when the former (D) governor said a tax hike was needed to fund education.
Now that Riley, a (R) says the same thing is the same words.. it has suddenly become
'needed tax reform to fund education'

Hypocrisy? NO!
Unwavering obedience to their leaders!

Difference?
Absolute refusal to accept the truth from 'the other side'
Iw was 'all lies' when Liberals told the truth.
Now it's 'God's honest truth' when heard from the rightwing.

Once again passing 'Liberals' lies'
through conservatives' lips transformed them into truth.

they will accept views they previously disagreed with;
so long as the rhetoric comes from their own leaders.
No hypocrisy in mindlessly following the leader.
Even if the leader is advocating what was violently opposed six months ago.

The word CULT fits them like a glove.

Thanks for reading posts, visiting links and giving your honest opinions Professor.

posted 06-21-2003 09:54 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ChemCaptain:
Funny thing is, most of us probably have looked at the evidence, it's just so bunk..

I look at the sky all the time Shatty, it's just contrails up there.

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posted 06-21-2003 10:23 PM            

Dizzer,
Thanks for asking:

the question of the year:

what are you doing on a chemtrail-site??

IMHO,
"Web of Deceit" answers that question beyond any doubt. http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001023.html

posted 06-22-2003 12:03 AM            

Drizz-.. As of now, to try and dispell the myths around chemtrails. Well, that's nearly impossible, all the believers are pretty close-minded, so it's just fun. I was (and still am to a degree) concerned about someone with an actual severe mental disorder taking the chemtrail thing a bit too far and trying to take down an airliner.

Yep Shatty, your and Mech's ideas are too strong, they sent a republican super agent in the form of ChemCaptain, who's incoherant (but atleast semi-intelligent) posts bring him free gifts, like those cheap director chairs you always talk about. We must stop you from ever telling the public the truth!

posted 06-22-2003 12:54 AM            

who gave you yours?

Just how well connected does the Web of Deceit make you?

How many RW senators and congressmen do you know personally?

Are you a GOP/RNC team leader/
or just an idiot taking orders?

We already know the answer.....

Prove me wrong.

Show evidence of influence
as a result of arguing for Bush at all times in all topics.

comon. you surely aren't stupid enough to do that for free!

Or are you?

posted 06-23-2003 12:59 PM            

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Originally posted by ChemCaptain:
I already told you I bought a few director's chairs a few years ago, but they all broke, cheap!

I don't argue for Bush Shatty, I argue for my self. I argue against stupidity.

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Pure coincidence that your arguments are against everyone criticizing Bush?

buy better chairs next time chemmie.
My one chair is still holding up quite well after nine years of use.

Get that quarter jar ready, because everytime your team validates the facts posted in web of Deceit (drop in another quarter)
I'll either post a link or someone else will.

That link has garnered 83 replies in agreement in six forums, so far.
and 17 rabid rightwingers posting invective and insults to support my contention that
"fellow travelers"
such as you claim to be
are supporting the RNC/Bivings Deception
without getting the 'GOP Team Leader' rewards.

>GOP Going 'Amway' to Spread Agenda
"The GOP has launched an Internet-based campaign that includes a points-for-products system to spread its agenda throughout the country."
"The Web site --
www.gopteamleader.com
-- features interactive pages with links to radio and television stations, and partisan talking points....<

Posting those partisan talking points at your own expense
when you could be earning bonus points?
(for doing what you do already)
Not very bright!

Why would someone, who argues so actively
against chemtrails, be at a chemtrail website?
Perhaps the gopteamleader's
motto:

"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves."-VI Lenin

'splains:
Why someone who argues so actively against chemtrails is at a chemtrail website.

chemmie posted:
>I don't argue for Bush...I argue for my self.<
Ha Ha Ha HA HA HA!!!

It's sooo much easier
to believe in chemtrails than to believe that statement.