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Topic: Hey suicidal leftist idiots...What would you do about N. Korea? | Topic page views:
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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 04:02 PM
Since we've been distracted by leftists who don't wish to debate truth....it is necessary for me to remind the posters here of the actual subject of the thread;Are there any doubts N. Korea has WMDs? I don’t think so. So the question is, do we need to go to war against N. Korea before they are putting out nukes like Doritos and selling them to terrorists? I would say…YES…..but it’s a difficult situation. N. Korea is backed by China, a nuclear power which is now armed with nuclear tipped ICBMs pointed at the United States thanks exclusively to impeached forme Philanderer in Chief, slick Willey Clintoon. If we take on N. Korea, do we take on China as well? I think we have no choice in the matter. We need to take out N. Korea’s nuclear reactors and bomb manufacturing facilities, and we need to do it NOW. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,91978,00.html Remember during the Iraq war how liberals were saying that we should be concentrating on N. Korea? I mean this was AFTER we mobilized all our troops in Iraq and AFTER Congress authorized the use of force against Iraq. These liberal idiots were saying we should just drop everything and move on over to N. Korea now that that pot bellied little dictator wanted to saber rattle….anything to undermine Bush and the US military….but did they mean it? Once again we are faced with a Clintoon legacy, N. Korea, a country that is now able to manufacture weapons from the plutonium from reactors that Clintoon let them build. But where are the Democrat liberal voices now? I’ll tell you where those lying, evil hypocrite bastards are now; They want us to expend American tax payer dollars, and risk the lives of American soldiers in a county (Liberia) where there is absolutely NO American interest….NO imminent threat. And they are ignoring the fact that N. Korea just announced it is going to start manufacturing nukes like Doritos. Instead of attacking mentally ill, Kim Jong Il, the evil commie DemocRat, lying hypocrite rat bastards in our own country are attacking our own president for 16 words he said in a State of the Union speech…and accusing our own president of lying in those 16 words! This is so beyond stupid that it wouldn’t even make good comic book material! What an embarrassment to the world those Democrat Rat bastards are! They are destroying the credibility of the United States by perusing this tactic far more than GW Bush ever did. By winning the war in Iraq so decisively, we established tremendous credibility and respect in the world. Now Democrats are undermining everything over a lie Bush never made. After all British intelligence is still standing by their claim that Saddam sought uranium in Africa. Someone want to show me the lie in Bush’s speech? You can’t because it isn’t there. He stated an accuracy. Now, we are left with a world with REAL and imminent threats. It wont be long until a mad man in N. Korea is smuggling nukes to terrorists who will find a way to import them to America……all the while liberal Democrat hypocrites from hell are tying up the president’s ability to do anything about it. They are risking the safety of the world over their own petty quest for power at all costs. If this isn’t the definition of petty evil, I don’t know what is. And do you think for a second if a Democrat was elected, he would do anything about N. Korea? If you do, you are a complete idiot who does not pay attention to history, and you are probably too busy leveling false accusations against the one man on Earth, the ONLY man on Earth, GW Bush, who has the balls to take pre-emptive action against the world’s terrorist threat. Liberal Democrats not only have armed our enemies…..but their method of dealing with threats has been to decimate and undermine the American military, destroy the credibility of the US commander in Chief, and Arm the N. Koreans and Red Chinese. You really want to kick the one man on Earth who will deal with this threat out of office? You really want to put one of these same liberal commie Democrat Rat bastards from hell in office, and watch our troops die in another Mogadishu or Somalia over in Liberia where there is no national interest, while N. Korea manufactures nukes for terrorists like Doritos? If this is the tact of you leftist idiots on this board are taking…then you are suicidal, leftist idiots. 
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David
Chemtrail Information Agent
1269 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 07-16-2003 04:25 PM
"Since we've been distracted by leftists who don't wish to debate truth...."And lying cy's who won't speak the truth... I think your fan club is shrinking cy, and your credibility is non-existant, you may want to delete yourself and go home to mavericks. 
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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 04:30 PM
Yeah Whatever....Obviously David is not interested in the subject. Does anyone actually want to discuss the subject of this thread?
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suckingeggs
Senior Member

337 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 05:32 PM
Fart Talker/Cy, I see you agree with a well known lefty Chomsky in his reaction regarding North Korea, so both of you are getting the same information. Nevertheless, you are both confused about who the real maniac is.The game here is one nuke against 10000 it is a big threat to the US...yeah right. Anyway, you should start getting behind the Iran 2004 presidential campaign, or is the idea to have a concurrent premptive campaign against both countries. Oh and while you are playing soldiers there, watch out for Israel, they are spending even more of your bankrupt money. It could all just be a nice little trap your boy is going to walk into. If he lasts that long... John Snow is pitching that the rest of the world should buy more from the states, as the dollar has dropped 25% on the Euro. You will be 600 billion in the red at the end of 2003 and you want to go off and kill more of your own citizens. The rest of the world do not have a problem with the American people, but we will not support you and your ever so corrupt CEO/commander in chief, nazi puppet. Its all crumbling right before your very eyes no wonder you are acting like a drowning man, gurgling BS as the quick sands of deceit cover you from head to toe. Have a break for a few years and try to bring Jeb back in 2008 if you dare. Meanwhile you could always use some of that massive intellect of yours to break the chemtrail conundrum, whether you are left, right, centre or just plain looking for direct democracy in a sold out political world.

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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 05:53 PM
What about this quote of a former Clinton administration official do you disagree with or not understand, eggsucker?
quote: Interviewed by The Washington Post, Perry, well-respected for his knowledge of North Korean issues, said he is concerned that terrorists may be able to purchase a North Korean nuclear device and plant it in a U.S. city."The nuclear program now underway in North Korea poses an imminent danger of nuclear weapons being detonated in American cities," he told the Post

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KNOW-THIS
Senior Member
851 posts, Jul 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 07:55 PM
Yeah great idea Fastwalker, It's our job to police and babysit the entire world. We should attack all nations for having the same weapons for self defense that we have, like hypocrites. We should continue to spread our military out thin as a blanket. Scatter them all over the world, make us the #1 enemy of the planet. Let's put troops in Liberia too, might as well put them anywhere without reason just for the hell of it. Thats whats Bush's(really Cheney's) retarded policies seems to be based upon. Notice the world trade center disaster happened under Bush's blind "watch". Expect alot more of the same, after he stirs up even more extremists around the world with his tyranny. You are the suicidal one, maybe the next attack will take place near you and your family. If North Korea was going to attack us, they would have already. Although now little boy Bush might just give them a reason too. It's the arrogance and republican gung-ho war attitude, that pisses these people off. Since you happen to be one of them , your too stupid to realize this. Or maybe you just don't want to face reality. If I was you, I wouldn't want to either. You see Fastwalker, I'm not enthralled with politics like you are for many reasons. For one, why should I allow myself to be consumed with what I feel are nothing more than lies and deception? Why should I support either of two parties that argue incessantly and never accomplish much more than that(you are a prime example)? All I have to do is read your posts and see what your addiction to politics has done to you. Thats all the deterrent I need. While I oppose both republicans and democrats, my resentment leans towards repubs. Every repube that I've ever met has acted just like you, it's a conglomerate of idiocy. Your self righteous, holier than thou attitudes and bravado are laughable. So why am I here than? It's at best, mildly amusing to push the buttons of people such as yourself. The one's who claim to not care about what I have to say, and yet type paragraph after paragraph about me. You cannot resist the temptation of putting in your two cents, even though it's the same ole, same ole. 1)my arguments aren't logical- (matter of opinion) 2)I don't support my arguments with facts- (thats because the "facts" are being concealed by the filtered media) 3) I'm afraid of a debate with you- (I simply find debating with a robot pointless) 4) I'm unintelligent- (your diminutive opinion only, which in your deranged mind automatically becomes a fact, brought on by the robot mindset that has overcome you) Atleast I'm not a donkey hopelessly chasing the carrot thats dangling in front of my nose. A dog with blinders, having the narrowest views of the world. And oh yeah, I hope these so-called "suicidal leftists" do kill themselves by means of a suicide bombing. Taking a hundred or more republican ingrates like yourself with them. Send those conservatives to hell where they belong. I'll be pissing on their graves. 
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the professor
KNOW YOUR ROLE
heartland USA 1164 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 08:47 PM
I,ve always thought N Korea was more of a threat than Iraq for a couple of reasons, they are basically China. They hate the west, and are more than willing to provoke nuclear confrontation. Sure some people will argue but N Korea isn't an expansionist nation and also China. They are when it comes to controlling trade which equals control of an economy thus everything else that rolls down from that. When M Albright was over there 4 years ago they paraded their military and the troops sang out the song on how they were going to eventually bury the U.S. dumb bitch smiled all along because she didn't understand the language or mindset. I agree that we should take them out but we have to be ready for China at the same time. I would use a superplague if I had to and make it look natural. Sinister you say, look at the consequences 10 years from now, there will be no I told you so when it comes down the pike, I also think that if we were to invade them it would have to be during a Bush 2nd term, the idea right at this moment isn't exactly a popular one and unfortunately I wish we didn't have to face such a demon.
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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-16-2003 10:15 PM
KT sure goes to great lengths just to say absolutely nothing, and that he doesn't want to talk. I'm glad I was able to waste his time this way. With regards to the N. Korea issue, I'm not sure what the answer is. I do agree that nothing will probably happen until elections are over. It is a fairly good bet that GW will have a second term...If not, then nothing will get done, of course, and the next terrorist attack on a US city will likely be nuclear, with a Democrat in charge. If however, GW does get a second term, I'm sure he will probably see the inevitability of taking pre-emptive action with N. Korea before they can become a bigger threat. It might come down to a choice like this; either we take their reactors out now with conventional warfare, or face a nuclear terrorist event in the near term future. Both prospects are not desirable, but these are the kinds of decisions a leader must face…not run away from, and most certainly not try to appease the enemy by arming them as Clinton did. Democrats will not deal with it if history is any indication. As we see from some of KT's disjointed remarks, a liberal's first instictive reaction is to appease the enemy and to blame the victim. Appeasement is the reason we are where we are now. It was the reason 9/11 was allowed to occur. The US was perceived as weak after 8 years of Clinton appeasement and arming the enemy. Now N. Korea is a nuclear power as a direct result of Clinton policy, and a leader must deal with that fact. This is not the time for social experimentation. It is not the time to be “fair”. We have nukes so apparently EVERYONE should have nukes, even insane dictators, according to KT’s reasoning. There is not one Democrat candidate who will deal with the problem. Hence, if the United States is to survive, I believe that GW Bush must be re-elected. The only alternative is a Democrat who will get us all killed. 
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shatoga
Agent Provocateur
1011 posts, Nov 2002
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posted 07-17-2003 01:47 AM
Democrats of conscience were asking: "why invade Iraq over possible WMD, when N Korea has admitted they have WMD?"About time you recovered from the "Wag The Dog" diversion that Iraq was ans realized that N Korea actually has the nuclear WMD that Bush lied about in his SOTU ( to justify an illegal invasion of Iraq) Now that we all are aware. (Both free thinkers and those who just ditto Rush) that North Korea has nuclear WMD. Are any of you rightwingnuts aware that N Korea has already dropped a missile in Alaska? They've proven they can already shut down one state and the oilfields that feed crude oil to Japan. Does anyone care about the USA? Not neo-cons obviously! Not the Bush administration, who attacked both Afghanistan and Iraq because Saudia Arabians had hijacked airplanes and attacked America. Talk about skewed logic! Air Marshalls should be in all airplanes, instead of Americans being strip searched for razor blades and fingernail clippers. (In a rational universe) Airport Security is nonsense. Armed Federal Cops on all flights is the only thing that could have prevented 911 tragedies. Liddy Dole canceled Carter's Air Marshall program in 1981. Proof that 'the real terrorists are capable of long range planning." Ten years in advance, Liddy Dole/Reagan/Bush made 911 poaaible. it would have been impossible under Carter's Air Marshall Program. Box cutters against a .44 special in the hands of a trained Federal Cop. Isn't it obvious who made 911 a successful operation? initials are RNC "Rule or ruin." "Ruin in order to rule!" (neo-conservatism as applied to the destruction of america) "Rule or ruin."-Newt Gingrich (in a closed door Republican caucus) "Ruin in order to rule!" (in actual practice/ as applied by the RNC)
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 07-17-2003]

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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-17-2003 03:36 AM
One must ask the question, why does N. Korea have nukes?The answer is revealed in the quote…specifically the part in bold below
quote:
Toronto Sun 2/7/99 Eric Margolis ".This column has steadily warned for the last five years of the growing threat from North Korea. In mid-January, I reported North Korea was fast acquiring capability to deliver nuclear warheads to North America by means of a new, long-range, three-stage missile. Two weeks later, on Feb. 2, CIA Director George Tenet testified before Congress that North Korea was on the verge of producing long-range missiles that could "deliver large payloads to the continental United States." Tenet said, "I can hardly overstate my concern about North Korea," adding, "the situation there is more volatile and unpredictable." Amen. This column does not have the CIA's $26 billion annual intelligence budget, but it came to the same conclusion, only five years before Langley. Other U.S. intelligence sources confirm North Korea has resumed secret production of nuclear weapons, adding to the two or three devices it already has. It is also improving and expanding delivery systems for its extensive arsenal of chemical and biological weapons..Tenet's dramatic testimony confirms the total failure of President Bill Clinton's Korea policy. When confronted in 1994 by incontrovertible evidence North Korea was building nuclear weapons and delivery systems, Clinton chose to bribe rather confront Pyongyang. He dragooned South Korea and Japan into joining Washington to offer North Korea an amazing US$4.6 billion in oil, food and light-water nuclear reactors in exchange for its promise to halt building nuclear weapons and producing plutonium
Read that part in bold again, and understand what went on here. Clinton gave them US TAX PAYER money, in return for a PROMISE from an insane dictator…in other words a bribe, in lieu of facing the threat and dealing honestly with it. NOTE that Clinton not only gave the dictator a bribe…..he BUILT THE FRIGGIN LIGHT WATER REACTORS FOR THEM!!!! My God, you people. Don’t you get it yet? This is how Democrats handle foreign policy when they are in power. They bribe the enemy with US money and technology and hope everyone will like us and that the problem will go away. Well, any grade school kid with the slightest inkling of common sense will tell you what would happen next. OF COURSE the evil dictator kept the money for himself…and OF COURSE he continued with a nuclear program while telling everyone what they wanted to hear. And Clinton GAVE THEM THE FRIGGIN REACTORS TO PRODUCE THE FISSILE MATERIALS NEEDED FOR A BOMB!!!!!! I repeat; This was a bribe in return for a promise from an evil dictator! How friggin naive and completely stupid can a president be? This is the very definition of idiocy. And now we need a leader who will deal with the problem….who HAS to deal with the problem if America is to live without a very real nuclear terrorist threat now. Democrats ALWAYS create these problems. It takes responsible conservative Republican leaders to fix them. That’s just historical fact. And who is sharing ICBM technology with N. Korea, Pakistan and Iran? If you guessed China, then you win the golden cigar. And if you ask why China has ICBMs when before the Clinton administration, they could not even launch their Long March rockets without them exploding, one need look no further than the Clinton administration to find the truth. Clinton gave China ICBM technology, that put China 40 to fifty years ahead of where they were, in return for DNC campaign contributions laundered through Ron Brown’s commerce department. And you wonder why Ron Brown had to die…shortly after he threatened the Clinton administration that he was going public with this information? N. Korea is currently in the process of firing up a fast paced nuclear assembly line and China has more and more nuclear tipped ICBMs pointed at the continental US every month precisely because Clinton consciously and purposely made it possible for US companies to go over there and perfect Chinese missile launching and MIRV technology. N. Korea has the material to build nuclear bombs precisely because Clinton gave them the reactors to produce the plutonium needed to do it, in return for their WORD that they wouldn’t. Can you believe this????!!! Well believe it because it is the truth. These are facts…they are not arguable. The reality is that Clinton created these threats to America, and now a responsible administration is needed to clean them up. And you people want to fool around with putting a Democrat president back in office next election? Is it any wonder why I called you suicidal leftists? If you want to put another corrupt Democrat administration in the oval office that Clinton desecrated with Monica‘s cigar tricks and semen stains on the presidential seal….what can I say, those of you who want to re-elect Democrats are complete fools. This is precisely why the very survival of America is at stake, and that survival depends on the re-election of GW Bush.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-17-2003] 
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suckingeggs
Senior Member

337 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-17-2003 04:03 AM
Jaw, jaw, not war, war. Talk to the people you accuse of being madmen who allegedly hate you so much. Why do they hate you? Why is the world turning against you? What are your leaders doing that is causing the grief and the threats you feel under today. Ask yourself who is perpetrating this fear and why? If you elect Bush for a second term and he continues pre-emptive war, you will not be able to handle the repercussions of the world. This is not a prophecy it will be a fact. Give me peace, give me peace, give me peace. 
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KNOW-THIS
Senior Member
851 posts, Jul 2003
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posted 07-17-2003 06:09 AM
Ahhh yes, the good ole Clinton diversion tactics. Just like I said, already relying upon it. You are so god damn predictable. We should be discussing the filthy animal that is in office NOW. Clinton's presidency is irrelevant to the issues of TODAY. If Bush is so fantastic, praise him, instead you bash people from the past. Must be there really isn't that much good to say about the mime Bush. Your posts are mind numbingly mundane by the way. Most people are asleep before they even reach the end of one. Your passion for politics fails to captivate any of the members of this forum. You expect all people to share the same interests as you. And discuss in detail anything that YOU feel is important. And when they don't carry one like you, you criticize. If I don't add much depth to your threads it's because I don't think they deserve the effort. I could watch Hannity and Colmes to get the same effect as the result of reading one of your rants. Don't get lost in your own feelings of self importance. You're lucky that people even humor you. That way you can atleast receive whatever attention your parents failed to give you. 
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shatoga
Agent Provocateur
1011 posts, Nov 2002
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posted 07-17-2003 06:11 AM
with his head so far up Bush's backside..Fw states that it's clinton's fault. After all, by trying to keep N Korea from developing WMD, Clinton is therefore responsible for the nuclear WMD program N Korea re-started after W got appointed. Events have proven N Korea was right to develop protection against the rogue nation of W the dictator. Look from the viewpoint of anyone outside the US: Only WMD can prevent an illegal invasion by the American Hitler. Trying to prevent equals enabling? would N Korea need WMD if America were governed by reasonable people instead of ruled by rightwing fanatics bent on world domination? Odds are Saddam wishes he'd actually had the WMD Bush lied about instead of losing his country to Bush's blitzkreig. Is there intelligent life on earth? Yes.. but not within the Bush administration, nor their internet apologists.

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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-17-2003 11:16 AM
My God this is disturbing. I have been commenting on this board for a while now because I noticed that it was populated mainly by liberals and leftists (which is a curiosity in and of itself as to why they are attracted to chemtrail boards)…Perhaps because they are inherently attracted to lies? I don’t necessarily want to convince people to my way of thinking, I certainly don’t comment here to make friends, but I did want to see how leftists react to a conservative point of view, to have them maybe debate an issue or two in order to understand how they think. The result is shocking and a bit disturbing. Now I understand why Clinton and Gray Davis won a second term… I couldn’t believe there are people out there who actually think this way, this irrational and completely ignorant of facts, this motivated by sheer hatred and this manipulated by evil….but there are, obviously. I mean, here we have sucking eggs, KT and Shatoga actually saying we should let a mad man and terrorist obtain all the nuclear weapons he wants, because its only fair. I’ve never seen such insane thinking in my life. I mean, forget that this guy will most certainly sell these weapons to terrorists who will use them on a US city. Oh, that’s not important…let’s just ignore this minor detail. Heck…we want to be fair. Being fair to evil dictators and conceding to their will is the important thing. We should arm every terrorist, because it’s not fair that they don’t have the nuke. And Saddam was such a nice guy….He only murdered and tortured close to 3 million people and invaded two of his neighbors, violated some 16 or so cease fire agreements in the form of UN resolutions, fired continuously upon the US military, and possibly had ties to terrorists who attacked this country, but it wouldn’t be fair if Saddam didn’t have a nuke too. Shatoga, thinks of himself as a good American, but apparently would prefer Saddam to be back in power. Saddam isn’t the evil here in Shatoga’s mind. Putting people in shredding machines is just their business. Oh no….GW is the evil one. GW is the Hitler because he stopped Saddam from doing his thing. But it’s even sicker than that. Sucking Eggs and KT think it’s the United State’s fault that everyone is pissed, and heck….it’s the United States fault that Middle Eastern radicals hate us. Why, they wouldn’t have hated us before, even though for 100s of years the Quoran has told them to kill all those infidels who disagree with their religion, and radical leaders have been brainwashing the most extreme members of Islam to kill from an early age….. It’s all Bush’s fault…and America’s fault for perusing freedom and capitalism and protecting it’s interests…We should just stop all that silliness because it might piss off radical Islamic fundamentalists who are irritated by our success and want to kill us. Why, even though the US gives millions of dollars to the rest of the world in aid, it’s the US’s fault that these radical Islamic devil worshipers attacked us on 9/11. Hey, it’s just their religion. They should be free to fly airplanes into our buildings. Wouldn’t want to infringe on their freedom to kill us, now would we? Think about it…this is the argument that the leftists on this board are apparently making. Even though I just got through stating the fact that Clinton gave N. Korea over 6 million dollars in aid in US tax payer money and nuclear power reactors as a bribe…It’s the US’s fault that an insane, Satanic, mass murdering, communist dictator like Kim Jong Il doesn’t like us….Is it any wonder why I think you people are sick? Well…ok, you might think I’m just being insulting or rhetorical by calling you sick. You might think I’m just flaming…..Think again…I really have come to conclude this based on how you’ve demonstrated that you think. I’ve come to honestly conclude that leftism is a mental disease. Shatoga can’t even put two and two together and realize that the president he admires so much, the impeached Sick Willy Klintoon, gave the N. Koreans the plants to manufacture the plutonium they are now using in bombs. What part of THIS IS A FACT do you not understand???!! Yet somehow, it’s not Clinton’s fault…..and I’m just blaming Clinton. Oh yeah…I should just ignore the facts, truth and reality….because I wouldn’t want to appear biased, now would I? Leftists apparently think that simply acknowledging facts involving Clinton, analyzing the cause of the problem originated by Clinton policies is some indication of political bias. I should just ignore all causes of problems if Clinton was involved according to leftists. Acknowledging facts and historical reality is a political bias according to leftists. Damned if I’m not starting to believe that Clinton must be one of the anti-Christs to have you people under such a spell as this! You appear to be saying that if Clinton was the cause of the problem….well, let’s just not talk about it. This seems to be how you people have been brain washed to think. Can people be so utterly stupid as to ignore basic facts like the fact that Clinton gave nuclear reactors to N. Korea as a bribe? Yes they can…as illustrated here. These people on this board really are this disturbed! Amazing….These are the people voting for Democrats! When a rational person reads these posts (assuming there is a rational person who is reading these posts) let me ask this question; Is it any wonder why I don’t want these people as represented by the leftists here on this board, back in power? …Is it any wonder WHY I fear for the survival of America, if they do get power back? Obviously there are people like Shatoga out there who would put people like Clinton (the cause of the situation we are now in) back in power if people like Shatoga had half the chance. Do you see why I say leftists are not only stupid but suicidal…and they will get us all killed if we let them? It’s a type of insanity, a type of purposeful ignorance driven by hatred that borders on possession by an evil force….that’s the only thing I can conclude. There is not rationality behind the thinking… I came here to understand leftists….but this seems to be the only explanation I can find for this type of thinking. I’ve found that a good person, a rational person, is really incapable of understanding leftists, because a good person who is not under the influence of evil, really can’t understand it. I’ve concluded that the closest I can come to understanding the way leftist think is to just suffice it to say that it is a type of irrational insanity….a mental disease where rational thought ceases (as illustrated here by their comments). It is a kind of hate driven demonic possession… I do think, however, that it is best to bring these people out in the open for illustrative purposes, as I have done here. Nothing brings their true thoughts out quicker than conservative thought or someone stating the truth. They hate the truth, and scramble to twist or ignore it, as you can see here. It is good to draw them into the open, and I’m pleased to say, I’ve been somewhat successful at that. This is why they initially try to evade my arguments. They don’t want people really understanding how they think. They just want people accepting what they say. Their methodology is to simply repeat a lie as often as possible so that people who are less than informed will eventually be worn down and believe it….because this strategy does work on the weak minded. At well over 3000 posts, Mech has been the biggest employer of this strategy. Now we see why they avoid debate or being forced to defend their statements. If forced to debate, their true ugliness and deception is revealed.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-17-2003] 
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suckingeggs
Senior Member

337 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-17-2003 05:06 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4714031,00.html Special investigation The spies who pushed for war Julian Borger reports on the shadow rightwing intelligence network set up in Washington to second-guess the CIA and deliver a justification for toppling Saddam Hussein by force Julian Borger Thursday July 17, 2003 The Guardian As the CIA director, George Tenet, arrived at the Senate yesterday to give secret testimony on the Niger uranium affair, it was becoming increasingly clear in Washington that the scandal was only a small, well-documented symptom of a complete breakdown in US intelligence that helped steer America into war. It represents the Bush administration's second catastrophic intelligence failure. But the CIA and FBI's inability to prevent the September 11 attacks was largely due to internal institutional weaknesses. This time the implications are far more damaging for the White House, which stands accused of politicising and contaminating its own source of intelligence. According to former Bush officials, all defence and intelligence sources, senior administration figures created a shadow agency of Pentagon analysts staffed mainly by ideological amateurs to compete with the CIA and its military counterpart, the Defence Intelligence Agency. The agency, called the Office of Special Plans (OSP), was set up by the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to second-guess CIA information and operated under the patronage of hardline conservatives in the top rungs of the administration, the Pentagon and at the White House, including Vice-President Dick Cheney. The ideologically driven network functioned like a shadow government, much of it off the official payroll and beyond congressional oversight. But it proved powerful enough to prevail in a struggle with the State Department and the CIA by establishing a justification for war. Mr Tenet has officially taken responsibility for the president's unsubstantiated claim in January that Saddam Hussein's regime had been trying to buy uranium in Africa, but he also said his agency was under pressure to justify a war that the administration had already decided on. How much Mr Tenet reveals of where that pressure was coming from could have lasting political fallout for Mr Bush and his re-election prospects, which only a few weeks ago seemed impregnable. As more Americans die in Iraq and the reasons for the war are revealed, his victory in 2004 no longer looks like a foregone conclusion. The White House counter-attacked yesterday when new chief spokesman, Scott McClellan, accused critics of "politicising the war" and trying to "rewrite history". But the Democratic leadership kept up its questions over the White House role. The president's most trusted adviser, Mr Cheney, was at the shadow network's sharp end. He made several trips to the CIA in Langley, Virginia, to demand a more "forward-leaning" interpretation of the threat posed by Saddam. When he was not there to make his influence felt, his chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was. Such hands-on involvement in the processing of intelligence data was unprecedented for a vice-president in recent times, and it put pressure on CIA officials to come up with the appropriate results. Another frequent visitor was Newt Gingrich, the former Republican party leader who resurfaced after September 11 as a Pentagon "consultant" and a member of its unpaid defence advisory board, with influence far beyond his official title. An intelligence official confirmed Mr Gingrich made "a couple of visits" but said there was nothing unusual about that. Rick Tyler, Mr Gingrich's spokesman, said: "If he was at the CIA he was there to listen and learn, not to persuade or influence." Mr Gingrich visited Langley three times before the war, and according to accounts, the political veteran sought to browbeat analysts into toughening up their assessments of Saddam's menace. Mr Gingrich gained access to the CIA headquarters and was listened to because he was seen as a personal emissary of the Pentagon and, in particular, of the OSP. In the days after September 11, Mr Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, mounted an attempt to include Iraq in the war against terror. When the established agencies came up with nothing concrete to link Iraq and al-Qaida, the OSP was given the task of looking more carefully.
William Luti, a former navy officer and ex-aide to Mr Cheney, runs the day-to-day operations, answering to Douglas Feith, a defence undersecretary and a former Reagan official. The OSP had access to a huge amount of raw intelligence. It came in part from "report officers" in the CIA's directorate of operations whose job is to sift through reports from agents around the world, filtering out the unsubstantiated and the incredible. Under pressure from the hawks such as Mr Cheney and Mr Gingrich, those officers became reluctant to discard anything, no matter how far-fetched. The OSP also sucked in countless tips from the Iraqi National Congress and other opposition groups, which were viewed with far more scepticism by the CIA and the state department. There was a mountain of documentation to look through and not much time. The administration wanted to use the momentum gained in Afghanistan to deal with Iraq once and for all. The OSP itself had less than 10 full- time staff, so to help deal with the load, the office hired scores of temporary "consultants". They included lawyers, congressional staffers, and policy wonks from the numerous rightwing thinktanks in Washington. Few had experience in intelligence. "Most of the people they had in that office were off the books, on personal services contracts. At one time, there were over 100 of them," said an intelligence source. The contracts allow a department to hire individuals, without specifying a job description. As John Pike, a defence analyst at the thinktank GlobalSecurity.org, put it, the contracts "are basically a way they could pack the room with their little friends". "They surveyed data and picked out what they liked," said Gregory Thielmann, a senior official in the state department's intelligence bureau until his retirement in September. "The whole thing was bizarre. The secretary of defence had this huge defence intelligence agency, and he went around it." In fact, the OSP's activities were a com plete mystery to the DIA and the Pentagon. "The iceberg analogy is a good one," said a senior officer who left the Pentagon during the planning of the Iraq war. "No one from the military staff heard, saw or discussed anything with them." The civilian agencies had the same impression of the OSP sleuths. "They were a pretty shadowy presence," Mr Thielmann said. "Normally when you compile an intelligence document, all the agencies get together to discuss it. The OSP was never present at any of the meetings I attended. " Democratic congressman David Obey, who is investigating the OSP, said: " That office was charged with collecting, vetting and disseminating intelligence completely outside of the normal intelligence apparatus. In fact, it appears that information collected by this office was in some instances not even shared with established intelligence agencies and in numerous instances was passed on to the national security council and the president without having been vetted with anyone other than political appointees." The OSP was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon's office in Israel specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam's Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise. "None of the Israelis who came were cleared into the Pentagon through normal channels," said one source familiar with the visits. Instead, they were waved in on Mr Feith's authority without having to fill in the usual forms. The exchange of information continued a long-standing relationship Mr Feith and other Washington neo-conservatives had with Israel's Likud party. In 1996, he and Richard Perle - now an influential Pentagon figure - served as advisers to the then Likud leader, Binyamin Netanyahu. In a policy paper they wrote, entitled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, the two advisers said that Saddam would have to be destroyed, and Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran would have to be overthrown or destabilised, for Israel to be truly safe. The Israeli influence was revealed most clearly by a story floated by unnamed senior US officials in the American press, suggesting the reason that no banned weapons had been found in Iraq was that they had been smuggled into Syria. Intelligence sources say that the story came from the office of the Israeli prime minister. The OSP absorbed this heady brew of raw intelligence, rumour and plain disinformation and made it a "product", a prodigious stream of reports with a guaranteed readership in the White House. The primary customers were Mr Cheney, Mr Libby and their closest ideological ally on the national security council, Stephen Hadley, Condoleezza Rice's deputy. In turn, they leaked some of the claims to the press, and used others as a stick with which to beat the CIA and the state department analysts, demanding they investigate the OSP leads. The big question looming over Congress as Mr Tenet walked into his closed-door session yesterday was whether this shadow intelligence operation would survive national scrutiny and who would pay the price for allowing it to help steer the country into war. A former senior CIA official insisted yesterday that Mr Feith, at least, was "finished" - but that may be wishful thinking by a rival organisation. As he prepares for re-election, Mr Bush may opt to tough it out, rather than acknowledge the severity of the problem by firing loyalists. But in that case, it will inevitably be harder to re-establish confidence in the intelligence on which the White House is basing its decisions, and the world's sole superpower risks stumbling onwards half-blind, unable to distinguish real threats from phantoms. 
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shatoga
Agent Provocateur
1011 posts, Nov 2002
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posted 07-17-2003 08:00 PM
"Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." SantayanaHistory is repeating: This nuclear non-proliferation nonsense is a repeat of the stupid attempts to keep emerging nations from building battleships. As ever, My thanks to FW! Being hated by a neo-con-nazi is the highest honor I could imagine. Haven't been so proud since I spit in the face of a cowardly KKKlansman. FW,
Post your lies and spout your neo-con-NWO-police state-propaganda. "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." Santayana History is repeating: Another rightwing demagogue is blindly followed by his worshippers, while his armies invade smaller weaker nations with contrived false provocations as bogus justification.
Nations that can fight back will be left alone.
The drive for NWO global domination? They will have to exlude those who can give the bully a bloody nose/ as usual. BTW the battleship analogy. Remember aircraft carriers?
Think of orbiting platforms with nukes racked up and ready. & then consider why the Soviet Union suddenly gave up when they had more soldiers, more nukes, etc. North Korea is no credible threat to the US.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 07-18-2003]

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Fastwalker
Senior Member
832 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 07-18-2003 07:27 AM
The only party that has put blacks in prominent positions of true power is the Republican party. Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice are two of the most powerful people on Earth. The Democrats are openly racist by comparison. Don't believe me? Name one black Democrat in a leadership position in the Democrat party. Let's also note more Democrat hypocrisy...that Shatoga is now saying N. Korea is no threat. It seems the Democrats weren't saying this during the Iraq war. Nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists is not a threat? More proof that Shatoga is a complete imbecile.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-18-2003] 
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shatoga
Agent Provocateur
1011 posts, Nov 2002
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posted 07-18-2003 12:36 PM
quote: Originally posted by Fastwalker:
Let's also note more Democrat hypocrisy...that Shatoga is now saying N. Korea is no threat. It seems the Democrats weren't saying this during the Iraq war. Nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists is not a threat?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-18-2003]
Well dittoed FW! Here is the origional of your argument (translated from the origional conservative) "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." -Hermann Goering (rightwing leader) quote: Originally posted by Fastwalker:
Let's also note more Democrat hypocrisy...that Shatoga is now saying N. Korea is no threat. It seems the Democrats weren't saying this during the Iraq war.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-18-2003]
Had FW/CQ actually read any of my previous posts; it would have noticed my comments that while Dubya and his Oreos (light skinned 'blacks' who are some of his yes (wo)/men) Were Wagging the Dog in Iraq, Democrats and thinking Republicans were pointing out that N Korea admits they have nukes and are developing area missile delivery systems. While Dubya & his Oreos were Wagging the Dog in Afghanistan; Democrats and thinking Republicans were pointing out that almost all supposed 'hijackers' were Saudis, funding for Arab terrorists is provided mostly by Saudi Arabia, and that not one 'hijacker' was from Iraq or Afghanistan.
quote: Originally posted by Fastwalker: The only party that has put blacks in prominent positions of true power is the Republican party. Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice are two of the most powerful people on Earth. The Democrats are openly racist by comparison. Don't believe me? Name one black Democrat in a leadership position in the Democrat party. [Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 07-18-2003]
Justice Thurgood Marshall was a black Democrat on the supreme Court. (George the first) Bush replaced him with the epitome of affirmative action gone bad: Clarence Thomas. Despite a few high profile Oreos, "the Republican parody" is hostile to issues that matter to most black Americans (and also hostile to issues that matter to most white, Hispanic and Asian Americans) On a national, state and local level, almost all blacks in government are Democrats. Congressional black Caucus has had only one black Republican member: J C Watts, who has been shoved aside by the Bush regime. (He got to 'uppity' for Republican leaders) http://www.house.gov/ebjohnson/cbcmembers4.htm AFRICAN AMERICAN REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP COUNCIL Hypocrisy to the max! Read the list of honored leaders: including such 'black' leaders as Jesse Helms Trent Lott http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:6HaeZT-mhCUJ:www.aarlc.org/about/senatemantle.pdf+AFRICAN+AMERICAN+REPUBLICAN+LEADERSHIP+COUNCIL+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Let the "Black GOP" website make the point that Republicans were Liberals in the 1800's: http://www.aarlc.com/blackgop/ but since civil Rights, the white bigots bought Nixon's Southern Strategy: "Substantial Negro support is not necessary to national Republican victory," said Kevin Phillips, the mastermind behind Nixon's Southern Strategy, at the time. "The GOP can build a winning coalition without Negro Votes." >At one time, the GOP was the party of blacks, as black voters religiously voted for the GOP. They were attracted to the parties' message of freedom, and self-help. While black voting for the GOP decreased after Roosevelt's "New Deal," blacks still held it in high regard.. In 1956, for example, Eisenhower received over 60 percent of the black vote nationally. The picture finally changed when race become central to the Republican Parties ascendance to power, especially in the south, which is now the main region of power for the GOP. Barry Goldwater began the trend in his 1964 presidential race against Lyndon Johnson. Realizing a large share of the black vote was going to Johnson, who was working on crafting the landmark 1964 Civil Rights bill, Goldwater came out against the legislation and for the old Southern white mantra of "states' rights." The move helped him ride the wave of white backlash, and he carried the five Deep South states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina, a feat unheard of for a Republican at the time. That same year, Strom Thurmond, the then-segregationist Democratic Senator from South Carolina, saw the writing on the wall, and he switched from the Democrat to the Republican Party. "The Democrat Party has forsaken the people," said Thurmond, at the time. "It has become the party of minority groups, power-hungry union leaders, political bosses, and big businessmen looking for government contracts and favors." Four years later in 1968, Nixon's "Southern Strategy" used tactics from the playbooks of Goldwater, the Dixiecrats and George Wallace, to capitalize on white fear and resentment, by labeling blacks as "welfare cheats," and "laggards." White backlash to the civil rights movement and LBJ's Great Society set in, and Nixon's "Southern Strategy helped fuelracial flames, and garner votes, at the same time writing off black voters. "Substantial Negro support is not necessary to national Republican victory," said Kevin Phillips, the mastermind behind Nixon's Southern Strategy, at the time. "The GOP can build a winning coalition without Negro Votes." Indeed, Negro-Democratic mutual identification was a major source of Democratic loss, and Republican Party or (George Wallace's) American Independent Party profit, in many sections of the country." Since then, some Republicans have played to these fears to gather white votes. Their game has ranged from the kickoff of Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign when he declared he "believed in states rights," in Philadelphia, Mississippi -- the site of the deaths of civil rights martyrs of Schwerner, Chaney, and Goodman -- to Vice President's Bush's 1988 Willie Horton ad campaign, which basically depicted all blacks of being criminals. Some of the GOP's race-baiting has been, perhaps, unintentional, and other times it has been blatant, but it has happened, and black people are familiar with this list of racial baggage. < http://speakout.com/activism/opinions/5670-1.html Divide and rule is the Bush-NWO policy. "Wag the Dog Bushwars" as Neo-con philosopher Goering pointed out: "..the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." -Hermann Goering amorphous "terrorists" cited constantly by NWO neo-cons. In the finest parody of Orwell's 1984: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/ >In 1984,...a totalitarian society led by Big Brother, which censors everyone’s behavior,...the fabled Brotherhood, a supposed group of underground rebels intent on overthrowing the government.<

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rainheart
Senior Member

174 posts, Oct 2001
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posted 07-18-2003 01:05 PM
The Nuclear Frame-up of North Korea - by Gregory Elich www.globalresearch.ca 4 July 2003 The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ELI307A.html This article is an expanded version of a text published by the CRG in December 2002 under the title Targeting North Korea For all the ballyhoo surrounding the North Korean admission of a nuclear weapons program in meetings with U.S. officials, one salient fact has been overlooked. It never happened. Western news reports repeated endlessly the claims that North Korean officials admitted to a nuclear weapons program in an October 2002 meeting with U.S. Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly and again during an April 2003 meeting, yet no evidence was presented other than Kelly’s assertions. On this matter, the word of the Bush Administration was accepted as sufficient evidence – the same Bush Administration that has consistently lied about every issue. Citing the issue of a North Korea nuclear weapons program, the Bush Administration deliberately set about creating an international crisis on the Korean peninsula, eventually compelling North Korea to engage in a desperate bluff in hopes of ensuring its survival. To fully understand what took place during that those ill fated meetings and the mounting confrontation between the two nations it is necessary to view events in the broader historical context of U.S.-North Korean relations. This context is also important for explaining why the Bush Administration wanted a crisis, using the nuclear issue as a pretext for imposing punitive economic and political measures aimed at bringing about the collapse of North Korea. To the Brink of War and Back The conflict in U.S.-North Korean relations over the nuclear issue first arose on January 26, 1993, when President Clinton announced that the U.S. military would conduct war games in South Korea. This was followed the next month by the news that some of the nuclear weapons previously targeted on the Soviet Union would be redirected at North Korea. By March, massive Team Spirit war games involving bombers, cruise missiles and naval vessels were underway. Interpreting this as a provocation, North Korea responded by signalling that it would withdraw from the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), but talks with U.S. officials in June 1993 led to North Korea rescinding its announcement. New difficulties soon arose when the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) insisted on inspecting undeclared nuclear sites in North Korea, something the agency had never demanded from any other nation. This demand came at the instigation of U.S. officials, who had been pressing the IAEA to engage in more intrusive and wide-ranging inspections, hoping to turn up a pretext for applying pressure on North Korea and to expand opportunities for gathering intelligence. It was at this time also that North Korea discovered that IAEA inspectors were passing intelligence on to American officials. (1) Encouraged by emotive news reports whipping up reaction, the Clinton Administration charged that plutonium extracted from North Korea’s Yongbyon nuclear facility was being utilized in the development of nuclear weapons. In November of that year, President Clinton appeared on Meet the Press, insisting that "North Korea cannot be allowed to develop a nuclear bomb." No evidence for the accusation was presented, but it achieved wide acceptance by dint of repetition. By 1994, talks between the United States and North Korea had broken off, and the U.S. was exerting pressure on the UN Security Council to impose sanctions. In June 1994, the U.S. formally submitted a draft resolution in the UN on graduated sanctions, while behind the scenes the Clinton Administration had already decided on war. Defense Secretary William Perry and Assistant Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter "spent much of the first half of 1994 preparing for war on the Korean peninsula." According to Perry and Carter, "we readied a detailed plan to attack the Yongbyon facility with precision-guided bombs. We were highly confident that it could be destroyed without causing a meltdown that would release radioactivity into the air." Whether or not a release of radioactivity could have been avoided, the attack would surely have triggered far greater devastation. Perry and Carter anticipated that North Korea would respond by, as they termed it, "lashing out," or to put it more accurately, fighting back against U.S. aggression. "In the event of a North Korean attack," they believed, "U.S. forces, working side by side with the South Korean army and using bases in Japan, would quickly destroy the North Korean army and the North Korean regime. But unlike Desert Storm, which was waged in the Arabian Desert, the combat in another Korean War would take place in Seoul’s crowded suburbs." Perry and Carter admitted that "the price would be heavy, estimating that "thousands of U.S. troops and tens of thousands of South Korean troops would be killed, and millions of refugees would crowd the highways. North Korean losses would be even higher. The intensity of combat would be greater than any the world has witnessed since the last Korean War." Note the failure to mention how many civilians might have perished in that war. It should be recalled that 4 million Koreans lost their lives in the Korean War of 1950-1953, and a new war waged with modern weapons held the potential of sowing death on a massive scale. The hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of ordinary Koreans who would have lost their lives concerned the Clinton Administration not at all. (2) South Korean President Kim Young-Sam wasn’t as indifferent to the sacrifice of Korean lives as U.S. officials were. "At that time the situation was really dangerous," he recalled. "The Clinton government was preparing for war," with an aircraft carrier off the coast and U.S. warships planning a naval bombardment. As American forces amassed for an assault, Kim warned U.S. Ambassador James Laney that another war would turn all of Korea into a bloodbath and that South Korea would not move "even a single soldier" in support of a U.S. war. Kim then phoned President Clinton and argued with him for 32 minutes. "I told him there would be no inter-Korean war while I was president," Kim said. "Clinton tried to persuade me to change my mind, but I criticized the United States for planning to stage a war with the North on our land." Finally Clinton relented, but he considered South Korean opposition only a temporary setback and planning for war continued apace. (3) No diplomatic initiatives were issued from the American side, and talks had broken off. Alarmed at the drift towards war, former President Jimmy Carter chose to personally intervene, flying to Pyongyang on an unofficial mission to open negotiations. According to Carter, in their first meeting together, North Korean President Kim Il-Sung "was willing to freeze their nuclear program during the talks and to consider a permanent freeze if their aged reactors could be replaced with modern and safer ones." President Kim also requested a guarantee from the U.S. not to attack his country with nuclear weapons. That evening Carter phoned the White House, interrupting a council of war then in session. Carter passed along the news that President Kim had agreed to a freeze to be monitored by the IAEA and to engage in negotiations with the U.S. on a final resolution of the issue. Knowing that the White House might be inclined to ignore the prospect of a negotiated settlement, Carter told them that he had arranged for a CNN film crew to transmit a live broadcast immediately following the phone call in which he would announce the outcome of the day’s meeting. When the news of Carter’s intention was passed to others at the White House council of war, they reacted with indignation. Tuning to CNN, Clinton Administration officials were aghast as they watched Carter announcing, "The commitment I have received is that all aspects of North Korea’s nuclear program would be resolved through good-faith talks." Carter went on to indicate that under the circumstances, proceeding with the imposition of sanctions would be a mistake. "Nothing should be done to exacerbate the situation now. The reason I came over here was to try to prevent an irreconcilable mistake." Furious at the scuttling of their war, Clinton Administration officials were left with no other option than to respond to the proffered diplomatic opening. They chose to do so by immediately placing additional demands on North Korea and insisting on proceeding with efforts to win UN approval for the imposition of sanctions. Further negotiations the next day between Carter and President Kim Il-Sung resulted in North Korea agreeing not to reprocess their spent fuel, deflating the last excuse grasped by the U.S. side for spurning a diplomatic solution. A State Department official later reflected, "The shocking thing about the Carter visit wasn’t that people were disappointed that someone was going. It was that when he got the freeze, people here were crestfallen." (4) According to another official in the State Department at the time, "It went down to the wire. The American people will never know how close we were to war. Had [North Korea] not accepted, we had 50,000 troops on the [border]. We were hell-bent about stopping them." (5) Official negotiations between the two sides opened on July 8, 1994 in Geneva, and led to the signing of the Agreed Framework on October 21. Under terms of the agreement, North Korea was obligated to freeze its graphite-moderated reactor at Yongbyon and halt construction of two more reactors. The freeze was to be monitored by the IAEA. North Korea was also required to dispose of the spent fuel from the Yongbyon reactor "in a safe manner that does not involve reprocessing." In return, the United States agreed to "undertake to make arrangements for the provision" to North Korea of a light water reactor (LWR) project "with a total generating capacity of approximately 2,000 MW(e) by a target date of 2003." An international consortium would be organized under the leadership of the U.S. to finance and supply the project. Light water reactors do not hold the same potential as graphite-moderated reactors for the production of plutonium that can be reprocessed for use in the development of nuclear weapons. As an interim measure, while the light water reactors were under construction the United States was obligated to supply North Korea annually with half a million tons of "heavy oil for heating and electricity production." (6) The oil shipments were intended to serve as partial compensation to North Korea for being forced to abandon efforts to meet its energy needs. Faced with a dire energy shortage, the Agreed Framework in effect obliged North Korea to forgo economic recovery until the light water reactors would be completed. Once the light water reactors would become operational, they would be capable of generating far more power than the graphite-moderated reactors that North Korea was compelled to freeze. While the energy shortage in North Korea continued to worsen under the press of U.S. sanctions and a series of natural disasters, the U.S. deliberately delayed construction of the new reactors. Although the 1994 Agreed Framework obligated the consortium to complete construction of both light water reactors by 2003, years passed without any action other than building the infrastructure needed to support the construction project. The U.S. calculated that North Korea would not long survive its economic difficulties, and that if construction of the reactors could be delayed long enough, they need never be built. Newly elected President Bush openly expressed his disdain for the 1994 Agreed Framework, and it was only in August 2002 that cement was finally poured for the foundation of the first reactor, at Kumho on the eastern coast. At a minimum, eight years would be required to complete the project, ensuring that at best North Korea would receive relief for its power shortage 16 years after signing the Agreed Framework. "Upon conclusion of the supply contract for the provision of the LWR project," reads the Agreed Framework, "ad hoc and routine inspections will resume…with respect to the facilities not subject to the freeze." Inspections of the closed plutonium facilities had continued regularly since 1994, but the more widespread and intrusive inspection program that the U.S. desired could not be implemented under the agreement until completion of the LWR supply contract. The U.S. was not inclined to wait. It wanted those inspections now. At the ceremony marking the laying of the foundation for the first plant, James Pritchard, American delegate to the consortium, insisted that North Korea immediately allow an expanded inspection program. (7) Nuclear Threat The commitment to complete construction of the light water reactors by 2003 wasn’t the only provision of the Agreed Framework flouted by the U.S. Article 2 called for a "move toward full normalization of political and economic relations," and Article 3 clearly stated, "The U.S. will provide formal assurances to the DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea – North Korea], against the threat or use of nuclear weapons by the U.S." (8) Despite those commitments, the U.S. never abandoned its aggressive nuclear posture towards the DPRK. Less than four years after signing the 1994 Geneva agreement, in the spring of 1998, U.S. warplanes based at the Seymour Johnson Air Base in North Carolina conducted a mock exercise to simulate a long-range mission to drop nuclear bombs on North Korea. Aircraft from the 4th Fighter Wing carrying concrete dummy bombs intended to represent B61 nuclear bombs flew to the Avon Park Bombing Range in Florida, where they dropped their loads. According to Brigadier General Randall K. Bigum, "We simulated fighting a war in Korea, using a Korean scenario" that "simulated a decision by the National Command Authority about considering using nuclear weapons… We identified aircraft, crews, and weapons loaders to load up tactical nuclear weapons onto our aircraft. When that phase was terminated, the last phase of the exercise, the employment phase, began. It required us to fly those airplanes down to a range in Florida and drop a concrete blivet. The blivet has the same aerodynamic shape as a bomb, but is full of concrete." (9) President George W. Bush was no more disposed to respect Article 3 of the Agreed Framework than was his predecessor. During his State of the Union address on January 29, 2002, President Bush singled out North Korea along with Iraq and Iran as belonging to his ludicrous concept of an "axis of evil," accusing North Korea of "arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction." (10) Officials in North Korea were not blind. They could see Bush preparing to wage a war of aggression against Iraq, first on the list of so-called "evil" nations. It was no mystery which nation was second. Less than three months after his State of the Union address, President Bush ordered the Pentagon to develop plans for a more flexible policy in the use of nuclear weapons, authorizing their use in three potential scenarios. Henceforth nuclear weapons could be employed in "retaliation for attack with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons" and "against targets able to withstand non-nuclear attack," an apparent reference to North Korean underground industrial and military facilities. A third category called for nuclear attack "in the event of surprising military developments," a phrase vague enough to allow open-ended interpretation. The policy directed the Pentagon to be prepared to use nuclear weapons against seven countries: Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and Syria. (11) The North Koreans had ample cause to fear such aggressive posturing, based on bitter memories of their last experience at the hands of the U.S. military during the 1950-3 Korean War. In the first year of the Korean War, on November 5, General Douglas MacArthur ordered the destruction of "every means of communication, every installation, factory, city and village" in an area stretching from the Yalu River to the battle line. The first city to be levelled was Sinuiju, and U.S. warplanes soon began to employ napalm during bombing raids against civilian targets. Over 2,300 gallons of napalm were dropped on Pyongyang in one raid alone, in July 1952. Mass fire bombings systematically wiped out one town after another and U.S. planes also targeted power stations and irrigation dams that supported rice fields. As irrigation dams were destroyed, villages downstream were swept away in the resulting floods, inflicting enormous death and destruction. At various times during the war, the U.S. even considered using tactical nuclear weapons. Hungarian correspondent Tibor Meray witnessed the "destruction and horrible things committed by the American forces. Everything which moved in North Korea was a military target, peasants in the fields were often machine gunned by pilots" motivated solely by what seemed to him amusement. Meray saw "complete devastation between the Yalu River and the capital" of North Korea. There were "no more cities in North Korea," he reported. Every city Meray passed through "was a collection of chimneys. I don’t know why houses collapsed and chimneys did not, but I went through a city of 200,000 inhabitants and I saw thousands of chimneys and that was all." U.S. General William Dean, taken prisoner during the war, remembered being amazed at the sight of the city of Huichon. "The city I’d seen before – two storied buildings, a prominent main street – wasn’t there anymore," while "most of the towns were just rubble or snowy open spaces where buildings had been." All of these towns, he said, "once full of people, were unoccupied shells. The villagers lived in entirely new temporary villages, hidden in canyons." American troops and U.S.-installed South Korean President Syngman Rhee’s forces executed civilians in North Korea on a mass scale. As U.S. soldiers were pushed out of North Korea by advancing Chinese and North Korean troops, they deliberately destroyed everything in their path. The war diary of the 24th Infantry Division relates, "Razing of villages along our withdrawal routes and destruction of food staples became the order of the day." Virtually no house was left standing, remembers a Chinese soldier, and the region was filled with homeless people during the winter of 1950-1 when temperatures dropped to 40 F below zero. According to U.S. General Curtis LeMay, "We burned down just about every city in North and South Korea both," and "we killed off over a million civilian Koreans and drove several million more from their homes." During the war, North Korea coped with such terror tactics by building underground factories and housing on a large scale. (12) North Korean concerns over U.S. threats are routinely dismissed as over-sensitivity, but such a view can only be sustained by ignorance of the history of the Korean War. The North Koreans haven’t forgotten the experience, building many post-war factories and military facilities underground. As targets able to withstand non-nuclear attack, such underground facilities fall into the second category of targets the Bush Administration identifies as justifying the use of nuclear weapons. Nuclear Frame-up and Imperial Arrogance Once President Bush took office, he promptly broke off contacts between the U.S. and North Korea. Nearly a year and a half passed before the Bush Administration notified North Korea that it would send Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly to discuss a resumption of dialogue. Eagerly awaiting what was expected to be a diplomatic discussion leading towards regular dialogue, North Korean delegates were shocked during the October 3-5, 2002 meetings to find that Kelly had a different task in mind. At no time during the meetings was Kelly willing to discuss a resumption of relations. Instead, Kelly opened the first meeting by ignoring the usual protocol of greetings; blunting saying that he had not come to negotiate. Kelly then accused North Korea of violating the terms of the Agreed Framework by conducting a secret uranium enrichment program to develop nuclear weapons. Furthermore, he added, there could be no dialogue between the two nations until this program was disbanded. According to the North Koreans, Kelly was "very rude" and presented his demands in an "extremely threatening and arrogant manner." North Korean Deputy Foreign Minister Kim Kye-Kwan was "stunned" by Kelly’s display of arrogance. During the first coffee break Kim communicated Kelly’s statements to top ranking officials. When the meeting resumed, Kelly continued his attack, accusing North Korea of "human rights violations." The North Koreans felt that Kelly "behaved as though he was some sort of investigator who came here to check if we were willing to accept U.S. demands and move accordingly or not." The North Korean delegates were particularly upset when Kelly delivered an ultimatum: either they give up their non-existent nuclear weapons program or the U.S. would end contact. Worse yet, Kelly warned that the U.S. would force a halt to burgeoning North Korean relations with Japan and South Korea. The North Korean delegation countered Kelly’s demands with the suggestion that they would discuss settling U.S. security concerns if the Bush Administration would renounce its hostile policy towards the DPRK. The first day’s meeting was followed by an all-night session attended by top-ranking North Korean officials. (13) If the Bush Administration had calculated that its one-size-fits-all diplomatic approach of pressure and bullying would work with the DPRK, then it had seriously miscalculated. Fiercely independent, North Korea bases its political philosophy on what it calls ‘juche sasang’ – the ideology of self-reliance. Rather than bend to threats, the North Korean delegation responded predictably with an assertion of pride. During the second day of meetings, First Deputy Foreign Minister Kang Sok-Ju told Kelly that if the U.S. continued to threaten the DPRK, then it was entitled to have nuclear weapons to ensure its security. This was not an admission of a nuclear weapons program. Kang was sending the U.S. a message that North Korea would not be pushed around and that if the Bush Administration’s nuclear threats continued, then the DPRK would consider taking measures in self-defense. It was in fact North Korea’s right to do so, a right ensured by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Article X of the treaty stipulates, "Each party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country." Clearly, North Korea faced just such a threat from the U.S. Oh Sung-Chul of the DPRK Foreign Ministry affirmed, " I clearly say that we denied from the start their allegations of a nuclear weapons program using enriched uranium." (14) According to North Korean state television, "We just explained our basic position that we are entitled to possess nuclear weapons if the United States violates their nuclear agreement and forces the country into a nuclear war. However, the Bush Administration made use of this to argue that we are developing nuclear weapons. Such a fabrication will not be accepted." While emphasizing its right to pursue development of nuclear weapons if pressed too hard, the North Koreans preferred a diplomatic solution and repeatedly asked for assurance from the U.S. that it would cease its threats. The North Korean delegation offered to negotiate a resolution of the nuclear issue with the U.S. based on three conditions: 1) that the U.S. recognize the sovereignty of the DPRK; 2) that the U.S. not impose punitive economic measures; and 3) that the U.S. provide assurance that it would not attack North Korea. The North Koreans were painfully aware both of the Bush Administration’s hostile intent towards them, as well as U.S. plans to invade Iraq. Their concerns were brushed aside by the U.S. delegation, which used the nuclear accusation to push its demand that Western inspectors be permitted to roam at will throughout North Korea. (15) From the standpoint of the Bush Administration, such inspections promised several potential benefits. The inspection process might turn up something which the U.S. could usefully misrepresent, providing a pretext for military action or threats. As with UN inspectors in Iraq until 1998 and European monitors in Kosovo before the NATO war, the process could double as an intelligence-gathering mission, aiding the U.S. military in planning future military operations. And finally, an intrusive inspection program would provide a foot in the door for Western meddling in the DPRK, leading to further demands and pressure on the North Koreans to allow other forms of interference. The Bush Administration surely knew that the North Koreans would not grovel, and Kelly’s performance therefore was probably intended to sever relations and allow the U.S. to withdraw from its commitments under the 1994 Agreed Framework. Following the October meetings Kelly returned to Seoul, where he announced that he had communicated to North Korean officials "our serious concerns and raised the implications of North Korean conduct," but that there were "no decisions on additional meetings at this time nor did either side expect any." At that point, nothing was mentioned about a North Korean nuclear weapons program. (16) The next day, the North Koreans went public with their own reaction to the failed meetings, pointing out that "the U.S. Bush Administration is continuing to pursue – instead of dialogue – a hard-line hostile policy of trying to dominate us with strength and high-handedness." (17) Twelve days passed after the end of the meeting before the U.S. suddenly proclaimed that the North Korean delegation had admitted to conducting a secret nuclear weapons program. The Bush Administration had apparently determined that it could best achieve its goal of isolating North Korea by twisting Kang’s words. A compliant press could be counted on to parrot the accusation as if it was fact, and there was little risk that a reporter would inquire about evidence. It was an expectation that was not disappointed. Outside the U.S., not everyone bought the story. The South Korean Defense Ministry questioned the assertion that North Korea had already built plutonium nuclear weapons and pointed out that these bombs – "if they exist, would weigh between 2 and 3 tons because of lack of technology to make them lighter." The weight of such weapons would exceed the delivery capability of North Korea’s missiles and bombers. (18) Russian military analysts concluded that North Korea lacked the "military and economic potential" to produce nuclear weapons and that the "existing military potential of the DPRK is quite definitely of a defensive nature." (19) U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton visited Russia and presented evidence backing the American accusation of a North Korean nuclear weapons program, hoping to persuade the Russians to support the application of pressure on North Korea. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Losyukov was distinctly unimpressed with the quality of such evidence, stating that "the Russian side has not yet received any convincing evidence of the existence of such a program." (20) South Korean Unification Minister Jeong Se-Hyun suspected that the U.S. was not being entirely honest. "I am afraid that Kang Sok-Ju’s remarks were quoted without their full context." Lim Dong-Won, South Korean Presidential Advisor for Security and Unification, commented that the timing was suspicious. "The U.S. notified us of the secret program in August [2002], when Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi planned to visit Pyongyang and the two Koreas embarked on reconnection of railways and roads." (21) Adding to the suspicion concerning the timing of the announcement was the expectation that it would have an effect on the South Korean presidential election scheduled to take place two months later, on December 19. Opening Salvos in the Anti-DPRK Campaign Once the press was filled with the contrived story of a nuclear weapons program, the propaganda groundwork was laid for diplomatic efforts to isolate and pressure North Korea. James Kelly met with Chinese and South Korean officials, revealing afterwards that the U.S. was working to apply "maximum international pressure on North Korea to abandon its nuclear weapons ambition." That the U.S. intended to abrogate the 1994 Agreed Framework was indicated by Kelly’s assertion that the U.S. would not consider a diplomatic resolution such as the one in 1994. Bush was determined to kill the agreement, and U.S. officials visiting Japan and South Korea pushed for shutting down the project to build light water reactors. While Kelly was meeting with Asian leaders, Undersecretary of State John Bolton travelled to Russia, France and Great Britain hoping to win support for the isolation of North Korea. Although their efforts to persuade foreign officials to agree to an economic embargo against North Korea failed to bear fruit, they planned to persist. "This is going to take some time," admitted one American official, "because a lot of countries have different equities with the North Koreans." In addition to an end to the non-existent nuclear weapons program, U.S. officials also called for "verification," by which they meant intrusive inspections throughout North Korea. But that was not all. "This time," one American official insisted, "we must also address other problems – missile transfer, the conventional forces the North has, and the abominable way it treats its people." All code words for what would in reality be an endless series of demands and pressure intended to lead to toppling the government of North Korea. "We control [North Korea’s] hopes for the future, and we can hold those hopes hostage," a high-ranking State Department official threatened. (22) In October 2002, President Bush upped the ante by issuing a classified executive order granting U.S. special forces authority to operate clandestinely in nations with which the U.S. is not at war and to destroy "arms supply lines" to terrorists and the three nations comprising the so-called axis of evil. The targets of U.S. covert military operations could include arms and scientific equipment that the U.S. judged might potentially serve a dual use for the manufacture of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. Since the U.S. had for years denied permission for Iraq to import urgently needed medical equipment based on just such a claim of dual use, Bush’s executive order would permit covert military operations against a wide variety of firms engaging in normal trade with designated enemy nations. (23) The furor caused by the U.S. accusation would not die down, and North Korea was caught in a bind. It could not abandon a nuclear weapons program that it did not have. U.S. demands were perfectly crafted to prevent a diplomatic solution, enabling the U.S. to implement any hostile tactic it chose. The Foreign Ministry of the DPRK issued a statement pointing out that the Bush Administration had listed North Ko | |