posted 07-23-2003 02:59 AM            

Back during the Ford administration, when hours long waits to buy a few gallons were common everywhere;
I asked an ARCO VP who was a family friend:
{San Diego}
"Why are all those tankers sitting so low in the water?"
He replied "Because every petroleum storage tank in America is full." He continued
"We have no capacity to offload them."

"Why can't we get any gas then?" I asked.

"The refineries were shut down a few months back for maintainance." he chuckled and continued
"That's why there's a shortage.
We just quit refining for a while and created this shortage.
It has nothing to do with OPEC.
They're just the fall guys."

"But congress is investigating." I said
"Energy Czar William simon said so on TV."

"By the time they get to our refineries; we'll be at full production."

I bought gas by the 55gallon drum at 2AM,
from people who made non-connected people wait
in line for hours to buy a 5 gallon maximum, during the next contrived fuel shortage.

Professor,
Notice again this winter the shortage of home heating oil, which will 'force' prices up.

Happens every year.

Didn't you notice how gas prices went up just before election 2000?

Just like precious metals, stocks, and diamonds.
gas prices are manipulated for maximum profit.

The rich didn't get rich by being philanthropists.
They got rich by being greedy and manipulative.

posted 07-23-2003 03:52 AM            

There is so much petroleum available, it could be sold at 30cents a gallon with considerable profit.

American oil companies plan to buy, refine and sell every drop of Arab oil.

"When it's all gone, they'll have to buy from us at much higher prices."

I used to work capping wells.

Weld an open gate valve on top of the casing.

The fire usually goes out when the valve is closed.

Thousands of wells are drilled and capped throughout the rockies.
It's diamonds in the ANWR that they want to open it up for.

Any internal combustion engine can be cheaply converted to hydrogen fuel.
Hydrogen can be produced from sea water by passing a current through the salt water.

Wind power, as used enmass in northern California could produce the hydrogen.

The petroleum industry is a major backer and financier of bush the lesser.
the son-of-a-Bush who rules Amerika.

posted 07-24-2003 01:27 AM            

By the way, Bush has allotted more money in his budget for hydrogen research than any other president in history, in case you were unaware.

The reason we don't drill for oil in America, is because it is not cost effective. It is not cost effective because liberal policy and oppressive regulation due to leftist environmental activist organizations have driven the oil production industry out of America. You probably would make the argument yourself that we can't drill in ANWR. Again, here is yet another situation where liberals in your own party are stopping us from tapping our own energy…and by voting for them, you are part of the problem.

quote:

---

American oil companies plan to buy, refine and sell every drop of Arab oil.

---

Say it ain't so!!!!! You mean, oil companies plan to engage in that dastardly capitalism concept by BUYING low and selling for a profit??? Gasp! And who would be selling it to these oil companies, if not Iraqis? And who would the profit from the sell of raw crude to American companies benefit? And if it's cheaper for American companies to get oil from Iraq....who would benefit from the end product if not the consumer? Sounds terrible! Gasp...All those dastardly jobs that would create for people…Oh the horror!

Actually, you have a misconception about one thing Shat….(well a few thousand things, actually, but we‘ll deal with one here). The Iraqi crude will be sold on the world commodity market. The entire world will be buying Iraqi oil, not just American companies and this benefits the Iraqi people, and the world consumers of oil. I guess you preferred it before when oil profits only went to build Saddam's palaces and WMD programs?

posted 07-25-2003 12:21 AM            

I had to stop driving several high performance vehicles after Nixon's EPA mandated unleaded low octane sludge instead.

I remember when copper companies gave films out to schools crowing that 'the gold and silver refined as byproducts of copper mining payed for the entire operation.'

Then a conservative reorganization took place.

Those petroleum companies cried out they were going broke.
Those copper companies decided employees had to take lower wages and no benefits or lose their jobs.
No further mention of gold and silver byproducts paying for the total cost of mining copper.
Conservative lies had replaced non partisan reality.

Corporations that made billions began to show losses, as accountants sharpened their pencils until creative accounting hid every penny of profit and evaded taxes.

Oil wells are drilled and capped all over North America.

American energy policy is to use up everyone else's petroleum, then make the big bucks with a monopoly on the last reserves.

a search for hydrogen fuel showed that Bush is sending hydrogen fuel money to GM/Ford/and the oil companies to fund production of hydrogen fuel from petroleum.

No wind farms!
No improvement to the environment!
Just the usual suspects getting paid off for buying elections for America's keyser soze/
George Bush.

posted 07-25-2003 01:42 AM            

sound kinda kinky there shitoga....

posted 07-25-2003 02:54 AM            

Being accused of being "kinky" by someone who has spent a dozen years obsessed with slick's 'willy'

That's wierd!

posted 07-25-2003 02:58 AM            

one more time...

posted 07-25-2003 10:53 AM            

The truth is that Clinton was impeached because he lied before a Grand Jury, not because of what he did with his slick willy. Now a married guy getting his willy worked by another women (not his wife), in a public place so honored and revered by former presidents that they wouldn’t enter it without wearing a suit and tie is pretty disturbing behavior in and of itself. But this act of disrespect for the sanctity of marriage, the White House, honored public places and the presidency itself was performed by the President of the United States, the man with his finger on the nuclear trigger while Monica had her mouth on his….er….trigger, shall we say. That’s pretty disturbing. The fact that liberals defend this sick individual that used to contaminate the White House is disturbing.

Talk about making the United States the butt….or should I say head, of many jokes!….And liberals just say it’s nothing that a president should exhibit such psychotic behavior? And, at the same time they accuse Bush of lying when there is no lie there? Liberals are not only brain damaged…...they are sick hypocrites!

Damn, talking to Shitoga or any other of these liberal nut cases, really is like visiting Happy Acres funny farm and trying to have a rational conversation with a guy wearing a penguin suit, a lamp shade, and a pair of diving flippers. It just ain't happening! Liberals are nut cases.…(I was going to say “asswipes”) but when referring to Shitoga, I just thought that was too much dark imagery.

posted 07-29-2003 07:55 AM            

American soldiers fighting and dying for control of the Iraqi oil reserves is one thing!

Lowering prices to real people (and reducing profits) is too Liberal a concept to be seriously considered.

Anyone ever take a sick child to
the "Ann Rand Charity Hospital?"

Conservatives' cross IS the dollar sign: $

1 Timothy 6:10
"For the love of money is the root of all evil:"

Money itself is not evil.
Chairities use donated money to feed the poor and clothe the naked and heal the sick everyday.

A lecture on economics I attended:

"...by being willing to pay more, consumers force prices up.."
Idiot with a degree who spouted nonsense.
Consumers don't force prices up.
Merchants who band together as does the oil industry) to fix prices, force prices up.

Consumers would rather pay less than pay more.

Bush and Cheney both
condemned Clinton for releasing US oil reserves,
to combat shortages (and resultant price hikes)

They are both oil industry insiders, who know as well as I do,
any internal combustion engine can run on hydrogen, and hydrogen can be produced from sea water.

Bush administration hydrogen fuel grants have gone to companies producing hydrogen from petroleum.

Hydrogen fuel?
Meet the new boss. same as the old boss.

ain't the 4th reich vunderbar?

posted 07-29-2003 12:40 PM            

Now...how do the futures markets work? Well the futures markets allow anyone, any country in the world to buy the oil in large contracts. The futures markets are merely a means of determining price through the most equitable way possible; THROUGH PURE CAPITALISM, SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Prices are actually lowered on the world markets by Iraqi competition, and adding a more pure and higher grade sweet crude to the markets. This forces organizations like OPEC to compete by lowering their own prices. (It certainly puts West Texas crude out of a position of being able to compete…so no benefit to Bush there!)

In turn we also have greater supply coming on to the world's futures markets, and anyone who is familiar with the supply and demand relationship knows what happens here; As supply increases, demand proportionately decreases, and prices closely track demand. As demand falls, so do prices...through a bidding, auction type process.

So the overall effect of putting Iraqi oil on the world markets will be to lower oil prices world wide.

Now if we look at the refineries and Gasoline companies, we see that they tend to operate at a fixed margin of profit. After their costs of refining oil into gasoline are factored into over all price, it is sold to the distributors at a fixed margin above purchase of the futures. In essence then, oil reaching the end consumer usually tracks very closely with futures prices. The gouging usually occurs at the gas stations which sometimes collude to bring up price above their costs as much as possible, but again here, we see that competition is usually fierce more often than there is agreement or collusion.

One station will often try to lower it's gas price a little bit to increase sales...and this sets off all kinds of competition and price wars between the local gas stations. We see this all the time. One day prices will drop at one station by four cents, and suddenly everyone else is forced to drop their price in order to COMPETE.

There's that word again...COMPETE. You see...this is what conservatives really believe in, markets governed by the laws of competition, free trade and supply and demand.

These “natural” market forces have historically been proven to provide the end consumer with the lower price possible. They are the most efficient regulator and determinants of price.

So again...we once again witness, Shitoga’s tiresome propensity for lying and distortion of truth and reality.....typical of the common liberal found on this board, and moreover, that he knows absolutely nothing of what he's talking about. It is readily apparent for any reasonable person to see that Shitoga is completely clueless, and operates from an attack mentality full of false accusation and innuendo. But again we see, that his statements have little to do with truth or reality.

The reality is that the Democrats are actually the most corrupt, money grubbing bastards in power. Don’t believe me? Just open your eyes…. Look at how Jesse Jackson exploits race to shakedown companies for his own profit. Look at how the Clinton's do nothing but raise money for themselves....(and no charity EVER benefits from what the Clinton's make)...And look at Gray Davis of California; His whole career has been about his own personal fund raising at the destruction of everything and everyone else. Democrats are worse than thieves, they keep whole entire populations suppressed and dependent on crumbs, using other people's money and claiming generosity for it, while they pocket the kickbacks. Democrats are not only the most corrupt and uncharitable people on Earth, they seek to hold people in poverty. Yes, what Democrats and the communists do to society is worse than criminal, it threatens the very survival of free societies. They benefit at everyone else's expense. That is their modus operandi....

Still don't believe me, just look at where a Union executive lives one day...look at the car he/she drives...Compare that with the workers of the union. And who do Unions overwhelmingly support despite the will of their constituents?....DemocRats.

posted 07-29-2003 02:32 PM            

quote:

---

Anyone ever take a sick child to
the "Ann Rand Charity Hospital?"

[/B]

---

posted 07-29-2003 09:25 PM            

say what ?

posted 07-30-2003 02:51 AM            

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/29/110236.shtml

(Is that a handshake or a ominous vice-grip like warning?)

So, let's say we officially find out that the Saudi government was involved in 911...and I mean, not just harboring the terrorists, but consciously and actively INVOLVED in the plot to take out the World Trade Center....Yet these Royal ass bastards are trying to hold oil over our heads to blackmail us. I mean let’s just speculate here…create a hypothetical scenario.

They think they have real power because they've got the oil, right? That’s why they want to know what Bush knows…and they are getting a little testy. They think they have the power to shut Bush up with the oil threat, if he should make the little 9-11 investigation public…Are you starting to see the big picture here,…what could be going on behind the scenes? Now, why now do you think the Saudis have made this recent demand for classified information? Do ya think they might be getting a little nervous, thinking they may be next on the US terrorist harboring shit list…because they KNOW they WERE involved? Wouldn’t this explain why they are so adamant now about knowing what Bush knows?

Well Bush knows he can't bomb everyone....especially a country which has been a major strategic and trading partner for so long...He must deal with each country that supports and harbors terrorists independently according to the nature of each country by the most efficient means possible and according to the threat posed.

N. Korea, for example, must be handled more delicately because they have a crazy guy over there, the pot bellied, Kim Jong Il, threatening to use nukes, a guy who actually may have that capability, and perhaps lack of sense to use one. This is tantamount to a nutcase with a gun holding your sister or mother hostage...you are forced to negotiate differently in this situation.

Precisely why we took pre-emptive action against Iraq, by the way...We didn't want an evil bastard like Saddam or one of his human shredding sons to have the same nuclear blackmail capability...as North Korea has.

But that's somewhat beside the point....Mech and Shitoga won't likely get such a simple point anyway. Let's just suffice it to say that the point is that each country harboring terrorists must be handled differently. We just don't have the capacity and money to bomb every county ruled by corrupt idols of Shitoga and Mech, no matter how much they might deserve it... We must use other weapons than bombs and bullets in this war against terrorism, just as Bush said we were going to do.

Well what about economics?....See where I'm going here? It's pure genius...

Now suppose Mr. Saudi rag head, Faisal gets all pouty, demanding and angry like he's getting now...He's full of himself and thinks he has the world by the short hairs...But behind closed doors, let’s say Bush tells the guy..."Ok you people need to work with us or we will break your economic backs" ...

Now how do we do this you may ask? How can we follow through with this threat? And we all know Bush is good for his word in the threat department. Well we are sitting upon the richest oil reserve in the world...the cheapest to drill, the cheapest to refine...Iraq. And not to get Mech, and the Alex Jones crowd started here, but I don't think this was by accident...it was part of our strategic interest in Iraq...It's brilliant on the multitude of levels. Now don’t get me wrong…don’t think I’m going the way of Mech-land….I’m saying something very different here. I’m not saying this war was about oil. I’m saying it was exactly about what Bush has been saying it’s been about all along.

It’s a war on terrorism.

Taking out Iraq was just the first strategic step in this war…NOW this may explain why we didn’t attack the Saudis first, even though they may have had more direct ties to 9-11 (something we don‘t yet know). We needed Iraq to break the back of the Saudi government and the terrorist infrastructure…and Iraq just happened to give us 1000 other motivations for doing what we did as well. The 100’s of thousands of mass graves would be justification enough. The fact that Saddam was killing 5000 people a month would be justification enough….and as Seeker said, the freeing of the imprisoned children would be justification enough. But the strategic interest of Iraq is absolutely critical in taking down the terrorist infrastructure completely… It’s all about cutting off terrorist financing…And who finances terrorists, you may ask? Well oil rich Saudis for one….Saddam, did for another…(But the later is no longer an issue)…So look at what I’m saying here…OIL is actually the key to financing terrorism because that is where the Islamic world gets it’s money. We control the source of money…we cut the terrorist off at the spigot, simple as that.

Here's the scenario; Bechtel and Halliburton go over and get Iraqi oil pumping as quickly as possible. Soon, with the help of these companies (which by the way, are the most qualified companies in the world,) let’s say Iraq is now pumping out millions of gallons per day, and able to offer it on the markets at 10 bucks a barrel ….Saudis can’t compete. The Saudi government, with it’s sole source of income being OIL profits….is put out of business….All the while, with profits from the oil they are producing to put the Saudis out of business, the Iraqi people are profiting and bringing Iraq back to it’s old splender through the process of pure capitalism. It’s a win for them…It’s a win for us…It’s a defeat for terrorism…We just took away their financial source.

Now…the Saudis know we won’t nuke them…They know we probably won’t bomb them as we did Iraq….But do you think they would listen to a threat like this???!!! The scenario of Iraq beating them in the market place, and breaking their backs would sure perk up a few ears….And you damn well know they’d listen to Bush when he speaks…All terrorists know now that Bush means what he says and keeps his words. If he said “we will break you”…there’s no question, they’re going to be listening very intently and nervously. And hey, if this is the strategy Bush is using, and a conversation somewhat like this actually went down….Don’t look to hear too much more from the Saudis….If they are smart, they will shut up while they are ahead and not go making any more demands from the US…

posted 07-30-2003 04:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:
When Iraq begins selling it's oil...Iraqis pump the oil. Iraqis sell the oil...money from the sell goes into Iraqi pockets.

---

Iraqis fronting for their Amerikan masters might be convincing Quislings
to those who like FW want to believe

despite all evidence.

If all that nonsense about each fuel supplier trying to undersell all others were true;
Gas would be under 50cents a gallon.
Fool!

As usual; FW attempts strawman diversions-
going off on tangents.

(Probably just happened to be on the same list of RNC talking points s/he/it copied the 'nearly on topic' comments from)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:

... just look at where a Union executive lives one day...look at the car he/she drives...Compare that with the workers of the union. And who do Unions overwhelmingly support despite the will of their constituents?....DemocRats.

---

They get paid 40 hours journeyman's pay each week.
They get cars leased for them, airline tickets bought,
hotels and meals paid,
computers furnished, Mailings and printing costs paid.

All the while they are doing union business, audited every year by independent auditors.
They are watched like hawks by the Federal government.

Every penny of dues money, expense money, and all other expenses is accounted for.

Federal (rightwing prosecutors) eagerly check
every oine of every report, tap phones etc. hoping to indicte someone.

Meanwhile businesses go about defrauding stockholders and stealing employees pension funds with nobody paying any attention until
after the fact.

When it becomes union election time,
challengers get their copying and mass mailing cost paid and every member gets every candidates letters and comments.

During political elections;
The union includes ratings of candidates in newsletters.
No recommendation of whom to vote for.
Just voted for or against worker's rights and supported or opposed workers' issues.

Senator Arlen Spector (R)PA always gets contributions from my union's members,
because of his unawvering support for and votes for workplace safety.
"All Americans have a right to expect to return home whole and healthy at the end of the workday." -Arlen Spector

If Republicans want union workers' support and votes;
they need merely to support the interests of those workers.

Supporting Management at all times,
and legislation like the "comp time" attempts to end the 40 hour workweek
and return to sweatshops with workers mandatory overtime for straighttime pay:
That's why Union workers vote for Democrats.

enlightened self interest.

posted 07-30-2003 06:51 AM            

You seem to have absolutely no understanding of basic economics or business....I mean…are you putting me on? It certainly wouldn’t surprise me that a liberal democrat would have some ignorance as to how capitalism works…but this level of ignorance really surprises me for some reason.

You also missed my point completely. No surprises there, right.

Ok...let's get real basic; Let's say you bought an orange off of Sally that you planned to sell to Jimmy in your first grade class. That orange cost you 20 cents, let's say.

Ok, now I open up an orange stand right next to yours. I buy an identical orange for 10 cents.

You sell your orange for 30 cents and I sell my orange for 30 cents....Who made more profit. Are you following me so far?

Say em if ya know em…But given what I’ve seen of your analytical reasoning process, let me just give you the answers. Answer is; I made more profit from selling my orange because I bought it at a lower price. I made 20 cents whereas you made 10 cents from selling the same quality of orange.

NOW...pay attention class...

Let's say, that all things being equal, a roughly equal number of people are purchasing your oranges as are purchasing mine...but that's not good enough. I want to sell MORE oranges than you and, even better, I want to put you out of business so there will be no competition.

Well how can I accomplish this?

I realize that if I can buy my oranges cheaper...I can sell them cheaper, and thus create greater incentive for people to buy my oranges over yours. I buy in bulk for 10 cents an orange and you are buying closer to retail at 20 cents per orange...So it hits me...I can lower the cost of my sale price, and still have an equal profit as you, because I'm buying my product at a lower price.

My oranges can be sold cheaper...yet they are the same quality as yours. Now why would people buy your oranges when they can go right next door and buy mine cheaper???

Duh...I've just created incentive to buy my oranges...and every one comes to me. Nobody comes to you. Since you are not able to sell any oranges, and you can't cover your overhead costs of doing business...You close up shop. I just put you out of business.

Now Shitoga...substitute oil for oranges and apply the same concept, and what do you have? The same situation...Iraqis are able to produce their oil far cheaper than the competition. I think the average Iraqi lives on something like 20 US dollars a year, btw. Imagine if they had regular jobs and oil revenue coming in...That's the beauty of it. Iraqis prosper. We put terrorist out of business...and we stabilize the entire middle East by turning it into a Democracy. Iraqis now have money due to the oil business...and are free to control their own destines. It's a win win situation all the way around.

The only people that loose in this scenario, are terrorists...and the nations which harbor them. Once they get a taste of capitalism and a free Republican government....there's no going back. Free people do not sponsor terrorism. You might have noticed that....

posted 07-30-2003 08:36 PM            

Let's say amerikan oil well owners
were threatened by poor property owners next door,
who could also drill a well and produce crude oil.

FDR ended that problem by restricting drilling.
FDR protected farmers by letting them pile produce on fields
and let it rot
instead of feeding (at low cost) starving families.

Government has ever since served the interest of millionaire farmers while working against individuals who just want to feed their own families.

sold out is sold out/
Unless you are so deluded as to think your own side are saints
when they sell out your family
to big business contributors/
who own and control both major parties.

posted 07-31-2003 06:59 PM            

But at least there won't be any squabbles over gas money: Their converted school bus is fueled by used vegetable oil from cafeterias and fast-food restaurants.

The 13 Middlebury College students said they wanted to combine their rite-of-passage road trip with an environmental message.

Vegetable oil creates less pollution than diesel fuel, said Thomas Hand, 19, who took a crash course at Middlebury in converting diesel tractor engines to run on vegetable oil.

"It's an energy source that comes from the United States. It's being self-sufficient," Hand said. "Also, it's free. It's using some resource that was going to be thrown away and reusing it."

The students are not the first to power their wheels with vegetable oil. Activist Joshua Tickell drove about 25,000 miles on his "Veggie Van USA" tours in the late 1990s.

The Middlebury students left campus Monday night and plan to arrive in Conway, Wash., by June 11, with plenty of stops in between to drop off classmates and do some rock climbing.

Along the way, they will be keeping an eye out for restaurants to get them there. Based on a few trial runs in Vermont, the students -- several of whom are environmental studies majors -- are optimistic they will find the fuel they need.

The students filter the vegetable oil and store it in two vats on the bus. To get the bus rolling, the students first start it briefly with diesel fuel to heat and lower the viscosity of the vegetable oil.

They are sure to draw attention: They will be cruising no faster than 55 mph, with "Powered by Veggie Oil" painted on the back of the bus. And the oil "smells a little bit like whatever it was used to fry -- sometimes you get onion rings, french fries, chicken patties," Hand said.

The students plan to keep people posted through journal entries and photographs on the Internet.

"It's part of an adventure we'll remember for the rest of our lives hopefully," said Logan Duran.

posted 08-01-2003 07:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:

Saudi Arabia...the country where all the 911 terrorists were actually from?

---

some truth got past the cult of conservatism!
Hurrah!

bush/bin-laden families attacked America on 911.

Operation Northwoods, stand down orders/ only binladen family flying on 911.

How odd that any rightwing minion would let the truth be posted.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:

Saudi Arabia...the country where all the 911 terrorists were actually from?

---

FW,
It will be a friend whom you trust who will eliminate you.
Beware.

May your "suicide' be too obvious to cover up.
God be with you!

The antichrist is not gonna be happy with that revelation: (from one of his own)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fastwalker:

Saudi Arabia...the country where all the 911 terrorists were actually from?

---

posted 08-01-2003 07:45 AM            

And knock of the satan/Hitler stuff....If anyone serves the dark side, it's the people you support. You voted for Hitler….er Clinton, I mean....You support Democrats and you wanted to keep Saddam and Bin Laden in power,…. Remember? That's tantamount to saying.…“gee, it doesn't matter that Hitler slaughtered millions of Jews, let's just keep him in power because we don't want to get into a pre-emptive war.” There is no difference between Saddam and Hitler, except that Saddam and his sons were perhaps more brutal in their tortures and methods of oppression. Liberals like you were the best friends Saddam had. Thank God people like you didn't prevail, or he'd still be in power...

Oh, and what you don't understand is that all Islamic terrorists are part of the same family...the same dark goal. It doesn't matter if it's a suicide bomber in Palestine with Hammas or Islamic Jihad or an Al-Qaeda suicide bomber in Saudi-Arabia...or a Taliban goon in Afghanistan. They are all a part of the same Jihad, the same goal, the same evil family...They all want America dead because it is part of their holy cause, as mandated in the Quoran, to kill the infidel if he does not convert to Islam. It is all tied together….It is the teaching and will of Mohammed and Allah....