posted 07-28-2003 12:32 PM            

Bush didn't sign onto these contracts. Only the California GOVERNOR can!!!! The California governor is responsible for the state's energy problem...It's not a federal issue. Instead of building more power plants, Gray-out Dufus panicked at the last minute (having ignored the warnings for years that a power crisis was pending) and locked us into long term out of state energy contracts with companies like Enron.

From the perspective of Enron, this was an excellent deal. They did what they were in business to do....they were an energy trader. The idea is to buy low and sell high. That’s what a trading company does! They bought the energy contracts low, and sold them to sucker governor Gray Davis at peak prices. This is exactly what Enron was in business to do...but the governor panicked and locked us into these contracts.. because he is incompetent….because he is completely corrupt and devoid of conscious, soul or common sense.

Now we can argue as to whether Gray took kickbacks in order to accept the deal....but we can't argue to the fact that he did accept the deal! Bush has nothing to do with the Governor's decision! Damn, how idiotic can you be?!

At 20% popularity and decreasing....the California people realize how corrupt the guy is, and that's why we are having this unprecedented recall election....Keep in mind, that if 20% of the people like Gray Davis, that means 80% dislike the guy....and most of the population of California are Democrats. Nobody is questioning whether or not Gray Davis locked us into high priced out of state energy contracts in a last minute panic rather than build new power plants, and thus allowed the "energy crisis" to occur. This is fact. This is not debatable. This is what happened. Yes, the blackouts were a manipulation by power companies who were given the ability to do this, by our corrupt incompetent governor.

posted 07-28-2003 12:44 PM            

You know the Democrats have done something awful when even the leftist Los Angeles Times breaks ranks and exposes them. "In a meeting they thought was private but was actually broadcast around the Capitol on Monday, 11 Assembly Democrats debated prolonging California's budget crisis to further their political goals."

Members of Democratic Study Group, which has pushed to confiscate billions more dollars from taxpayers, failed to note that a microphone in a committee room in the state Capitol was on as they schemed about using the Dems' favorite tactic, obstructionism, to pressure Republicans into accepting the Dems' favorite non-solution, tax increases, to fix Gov. Gray Davis' $38 billion budget deficit.

"The conversation was transmitted to roughly 500 'squawk boxes' around Sacramento that political staff, lobbyists and reporters use to listen in on legislative proceedings," the Times reported today.

Leftist Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg of Los Angeles said: "Since this is going to be a crisis, the crisis could be this year. No one's running [for re-election]. And maybe you end up better off than you would have, and maybe you don't. But what you do is you show people that you can't get to this without a 55 percent vote."

The state Constitution requires a two-thirds majority of the Legislature to approve any tax increase, but the ballot initiative would let the Legislature sock taxpayers with a vote by only 55 percent of legislators.

Assemblyman Fabian Nunez, also of L.A., agreed. "If you don't have a budget, it helps Democrats," he said.

Democrats to the Poor: Drop Dead!

The Times admitted, "While a delay might serve the tactical advantage of Democrats, its consequences are already being felt by students, vendors and the poor: Since the new fiscal year began July 1 without a budget, the state has already begun to cut off money to some programs."

Assembly Budget Committee Vice Chairman John Campbell, R-Irvine, listened to about 20 minutes of the meeting on the squawk box in his office.

"It sounded like they were hoping to create a crisis at some point to further their political gains in other areas," he said. "I thought that was outrageous."

He said that the Democrats talked about exploiting the public's distaste for the (Democrat-run) Legislature.

"They were worried that if the Legislature appeared to have dealt with the budget crisis, the initiative may not play well," he said. "This is very surprising, considering they are in charge."

"Their intention is to destroy the state of California and its financial base," said Assembly Minority Leader Dave Cox of Fair Oaks. "They intend to hold up the budget."

After an hour and a half, a staff member finally told the dimwitted Democrats that their meeting was being broadcast.

"Oh [expletive], [expletive]," Goldberg said.

"The squawk box is on," the underling said. "You need to turn it off right there."

"How could that happen?" Goldberg said.

She later refused to apologize even after being caught red-handed and with foot in mouth.

posted 07-28-2003 12:48 PM            

Funny...I see it all too clearly.

Lets review shall we?????

**Bush gave Enron "hire and fire" authority over the FERC

**Enron gave Bush millions to sponsor his rise from a losing candidate for the US House to the "leader of the free world." In return, Bush gave Enron "hire and fire" authority over the FERC, and performed other favors in return for money.

**This directly and personally ties Bush to the Enrongate scandal in all its illegality. Bush betrayed his oath to the American people when he let Ken Lay hand pick regulatory watchdogs we entrusted to prevent the massive meltdown that cost Americans billions.

**Other top GOP officials like VP Dick Cheney, White House advisor Karl Rove, House Leader Dick Armey and Sen. Phil Gramm also helped Enron plunder and evade regulation

**Since the Bush administration's energy regulators were apparently more or less appointed by Enron, PG&E probably feels pretty safe in turning to them.These regulators are described as "market oriented", which apparently means they see nothing wrong with a private company being entitled to keep all profits while simultaneously sticking somebody else with their losses. I.E.Gray Davis

posted 07-28-2003 12:51 PM            

I'm dealing in fact while people like Mech and KT are dealing with leftwing lies, propaganda and outrageous conspiracy theories that don't even make sense from a logical perspective. If you're going to lie or have a conspiracy theory...at least try to tie it in to reality.

posted 07-28-2003 01:21 PM            

It's just endless...full scale Corruption through and through..

****************************************

Morgan, Citigroup Fined for Enron Role
8 minutes ago

7/28/03

By ERIN McCLAM, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup agreed Monday to pay a total of more than $300 million for their roles in energy trader Enron's manipulation of its financial statements.

Morgan will pay $135 million and Citigroup will pay $120 million as part of the settlement, the Securities and Exchange Commission said. The Citigroup payment includes $19 million to settle charges it helped Dynegy Inc. manipulate its financial statements.

In addition to the federal payments, the two banks agreed to pay $50 million total to the state and the city to settle a similar investigation, the Manhattan district attorney's office announced shortly afterwards.

JP Morgan and Citigroup did not immediately respond to calls seeking comment.

The SEC said most of the money would go to victims of Enron's collapse amid allegations of massive accounting irregularities — the first in a string of scandals that have tainted corporate America since 2001.

The government had accused Morgan and Citigroup of helping Enron design complex transactions that allowed it to underreport its debt.

"If you know or have reason to know that you are helping a company mislead its investors, you are in violation of federal securities laws," SEC enforcement chief Stephen Cutler said in a statement.

The SEC said both banking companies helped Enron design "prepay transactions" — essentially loans that were disguised as commodity trades to help Enron hide debt.

The SEC said the settlement brings to $324 million the amount of money it has won from companies for Enron victims.

Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau said his office would not bring charges against the two banks in connection with the Enron fraud.

"It is important that two major banks have committed to reform their internal procedures to help ensure transparency in financial transactions," Morgenthau said in a statement.

"Other financial institutions would be well-advised to follow suit, as there is no place in free and fair markets for players who think they can continue to conduct risky business under a cloud of deception and secrecy," Morgenthau said.

The settlements are the latest developments for investment banks that worked with Enron — and then become ensnared in its scandal.

J.P. Morgan and Citigroup are among 11 banks and brokerages negotiating a possible settlement with plaintiffs in a consolidation of shareholder lawsuits in Houston seeking at least $25 billion. In May, U.S. District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston and U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York ordered the banks, Enron and plaintiffs to start settlement talks with help from a mediator.

In January, an investigative panel of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee concluded that J.P. Morgan and Citigroup helped Enron deceive the investing public in a series of complicated, multimillion-dollar transactions involving Enron's pulp and paper business.

The subcommittee examined four related transactions — known as Fishtail, Bacchus, Sundance and Slapshot — which investigators allege helped Enron disguise its true financial condition in 2000 and 2001 by reporting loans as revenue-generating sales.

posted 07-28-2003 01:34 PM            

KT's post is so irrelevant, non-sensical and false, that it's not even worth responding to….but I will because I must be a glutton for talking to stupid people.

Why do you think Gray Davis is not responsible for signing Californians onto high energy contracts? Why do you think California's energy crisis is somehow the fault or responsibility of the federal government....It is a fact that it is NOT the responsibility of the federal government. The responsibility lies with the state and it's governor.

Let's look at the cause of the energy crisis. The fact is that the cause is lack of in-state energy producers...We don't have enough power plants. Why don't we have enough power plants? Gray Davis did not authorize new power plants to be built, and/or allocate state monies for such projects, despite warnings of an impending energy crisis. This is NOT GW Bush's or the federal responsibility. This is the direct responsibility of the incompetent California governor. Fact; Gray-out Dufus signed California on to overpriced energy contracts with companies like Enron. Bush did not do this. Bush had nothing to do with us. These things were the direct CAUSE of the current energy crisis...and high California utility rates…and they were due to the direct actions or inaction of governor Gray Dufus.

These are facts. Do you dispute these facts? If so, be specific. Show why Dufus was not responsible for authorizing the building of new power plants. Explain how Dufus was not responsible for stupidly locking the state into overpriced long term out of state contracts. If you can do this...you would be disputing the facts. If you do not dispute the facts, then you can't say that this somehow ties into Bush. Well…you can say anything….but you can’t demonstrate how your whacked out theoretical statements even could occur logically. To believe what you are saying requires profound ignorance of facts, and common sense. There is absolutely NO thought…NO fact behind your false cut and paste posts. Your own posts are completely non-responsive to the actual subject issues or questions.

posted 07-28-2003 01:49 PM            

It was actually..Bush's energy buddies and deregulation.

That's the point I was trying to make.

I think most governors if not all have taken some kind of bribe.

If the evidence is there..let the chips fall where they may.

On BOTH political "sides" for that matter.

posted 07-28-2003 01:59 PM            

If you're are going to make an accusation like this, Mech...then you are going to need to back it up to have any credibility at all. State in your own words, how you have arrived at the conclusion that Bush's "energy buddies" (a false biased implication) and deregulation caused California's crisis. I showed you how and why Gray Davis is the direct cause. You have yet to show how deregulation or any energy company is the cause. So tie this in for us. State in specific and explicit detail how Bush's energy buddies and deregulation caused California's energy crisis and why it is not the fault of the Governor as you are claiming. To have any credibility...you are going to need to back up your statement with something approaching fact. So far we haven't seen this. Will you take up the challenge and answer my question in your own words, or will you do what you usually do, ignore my comments and questions and use cut and paste Spam as a diversionary tactic to cover your obvious ignorance?

posted 07-28-2003 02:04 PM            

You can't reason with someone like you.

All the evidence is there...spoonfeeding it to you is a complete waste of time.

posted 07-28-2003 02:19 PM            

All the evidence has been presented in the posts. It's up to everyone to READ THEM.

posted 07-28-2003 03:08 PM            

Originally, I thought Arnold might be a good choice when compared with the absolute criminal we have destroying the state right now. I think Arnold would probably make the right decisions....but there's a huge learning curve there for him. He's an actor and a businessman, but we know little as to how he would make political decisions. If the after school programs thing he got passed...(which is completely irrelevant to California's current crisis) is any indication, then I have strong doubts that he would be effective at saving the state in time.

As a Californian, I'd say if we really want to save the state from certain doom (as it currently faces under Dufus) and do it quickly, we have to get a man in there who knows where the bodies are buried so to speak, a guy who KNOWS the political tricks Davis has pulled and where that 38 billion over and above what California raised from taxpayers was actually spent. We need an honest guy who is on the inside of politics...who knows every accounting loop hole, who knows exactly what fraud has taken place...even better than Davis himself knows. We need someone who will not even be squeamish about firing all those wasteful government employees Davis put on the payrolls to buy people off with taxpayer money. We need a guy who will repeal the car tax during his first five minutes in office...and send off petitions to challenge the legality of those energy contracts in court before noon...the first day in office..We need a guy with no ties to people he's taken bribes from...because he has not taken bribes…a guy with no fish hooks like Gray Davis has....

I think there's only one guy that meets the requirements...and that's Tom McClintock. He was/is state assemblyman and Senator...just missed contoller by a hair...He knows California finances inside and out...He knows EXACTLY what he needs to do and he has the raw nerve to do it...

posted 07-28-2003 03:15 PM            

But the GOP Republicans arent?

LMAO!!

posted 07-28-2003 03:25 PM            

they are not...

posted 07-28-2003 04:20 PM            

I'm hard pressed to think of a corrupt Republican actually....In fact, I can't think of one.

posted 07-28-2003 05:19 PM            

Read about him here....
http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/

BIOGRAPHY
(printer friendly version)


Tom McClintock is the foremost spokesman in California on conservative fiscal policy and state government waste. Dan Walters of the Sacramento Bee wrote in 1992 that Tom McClintock has "consistently been one of the very few legislators who's been right about what California is experiencing." In May 1993, Tim Ferguson of the Wall Street Journal observed, "Mr. McClintock remains about the only man in California who has consistently projected correctly the magnitude of the budget crises of the 1990's." The Orange County Register said, "Former Assemblyman Tom McClintock has consistently been among the most accurate forecasters of the effects of state tax and spending policies."

McClintock was first elected to the California Legislature in 1982 at the age of 26. Within two years, he became Assembly Republican Whip, a leadership position he held for five years.

In 1987 he jointly authored the Mello-Condit-McClintock Tax Rebate Act, which returned $1.1 billion of tax over-collections to the taxpayers of California. In 1992, he authored California's current lethal injection death penalty law.

In 1992, McClintock received the Republican nomination for U.S. Congress, losing the general election, although running 12 points ahead of the Republican top-of-ticket. In 1994, he overwhelmingly received the Republican nomination for California State Controller, losing the general election by one and a half points. In 1996, he was overwhelmingly returned to the state Assembly from the 38th Assembly District. For a period of four years, beginning in 1978, McClintock wrote a newspaper column, which he syndicated nationally in 1980. From 1980-82, McClintock served as Chief of Staff to Senator Ed Davis. Senator McClintock is also a recognized expert in parliamentary law

From 1992-1994, McClintock served as Director of the Center for the California Taxpayer, a project of the National Tax Limitation Foundation.

In 1995, McClintock was named Director of Economic and Regulatory Affairs for the Claremont Institute's Golden State Center for Policy Studies, a position he held until his return to the Assembly. In that capacity McClintock wrote and lectured extensively on state fiscal policy, privatization, bureaucratic reform and governmental streamlining. His commentaries on California public policy have appeared in every major newspaper in California.

Senator McClintock returned to the Assembly in 1996 where he was the driving force in the Legislature to abolish the car tax in California. In 1997, he co-authored the San Fernando Valley Secession bill. In 2000 Senator Tom McClintock was elected to the California State Senate.

Tom McClintock has been active in Republican politics since 1972. From 1973-1974, he served as president of the California Student Republican Organization; from 1979 to 1981 as Republican County Chairman for Ventura County; and from 1985 to 1992 as Resolutions Chairman for the California Republican party.

In 1984, McClintock was named one of five outstanding young Californians by the California Jaycees and received the civilian Medal of Merit from the Ventura County Peace Officers Association for rescuing an elderly man from a condominium fire in 1984. He has been honored by numerous taxpayer associations around the state for his leadership on state budget issues.

Senator McClintock is vice chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee. He also serves on the Banking, Commerce and International Trade Committee, the Environmental Quality Committee, the Labor and Industrial Relations Committee and the Constitutional Amendments Committee.

posted 07-28-2003 05:35 PM            

"--Mech you cannot operate on the premise that EVERYONE is a crook...

they are not...--"

Just Democrats...right Seeker?