posted 08-26-2003 09:13 AM            

>Asked why Army CID officials were participating in trying to stop the EP crew from filming, Donley said, "That's a good question. I really don't know and haven't been able to find out why."

Gary Meyer, co-director of EP and co-producer of the film, said the crew also brought back several interviews that apparently describe the U.S. use of laser weapons during last December's invasion. One Panamanian said he saw "a bright red light, which made a distinctive sound that he repeated for us on camera, and was then followed by an explosion," Meyer said. Another family said they had an intense white light come through their apartment window and explode whatever object it hit."

Trent added that several people said they had seen "a Panamanian soldier killed by a laser beam."<
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/panamainv.html

Sound familiar?
> Young men, women, children, and the elderly were burned alive in their homes, in their cars and in the streets.<
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-ontario-stories/2002-September/000623.html

posted 08-26-2003 10:41 AM            

The Panama Deception: Putting 9/11 in a New Light [documentary video]
Empowerment Project 7:16pm Thu Sep 12 '02
article#12053

America's invasion of Panama in 1989 is a perfect example of U.S. fascism. Over four thousand innocent civilians were brutally massacred to secure U.S. control over the Panama Canal and the Central American drug trade. Furthermore, Panama is now being used as a staging ground for all U.S. military interventions in Central and South America. Panama is the geostrategic key to military control over the Americas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the introductory comments:
"Journalists like to think of themselves of guardians of the truth - the fifth estate which operates outside of the self-perpetuating interests of business or politics. But what is becoming increasingly clear is that journalists are instead often pawns of the government or the establishment and they are spoon-fed a reality that only reinforces the agenda of the powers that be."

"You are about to see a film that reveals to what extent the American government controls what we think and what we believe is happening in the world. The Panama Deception documents what really happened when America troops invaded Panama in 1989."

"Now the official version was that the invasion was necessary to protect American lives and to capture Manuel Noriega - Panama's strongman and drug lord. That's the story that was reported on every major newscast in the U.S. and that is the story that captured headlines in all of the newspapers. But as the Panama Deception reveals, the Bush administration had a much more devious and sinister plan in mind. And it was willing to massacre 4000 Panamanian citizens in its ruthless pursuit of a political agenda."

"Nobody in America ever found out about the complete death toll in Panama because the government controlled all of the information that was coming out the country at the time. The Panama Deception is a shocking expose of how American governments control the game and make up the rules as they go along. And it puts the World Trade terrorist attacks in a strange new light once you see the carnage that American troops inflicted on the poor and innocent people of Panama."

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Still don't believe this is fascism? Well, take this into consideration. In the first days of the invasion Apache helicopter gunships, tanks, F-16s, Stealth bombers, and U.S. Marines rained terror and death down on the poor neighborhoods in 27 simultaneous "theatres of combat" - fields of mass murder. Young men, women, children, and the elderly were burned alive in their homes, in their cars and in the streets. People were run over by tanks, obliterated by shells, and executed in cold blood by American soldiers. Others were placed in concentration camps after their homes were torched by U.S. troops. Bodies were dumped in the ocean, burned on the beaches and buried in mass graves. The Army went around arresting union leaders, reporters, Nationalist party members, members of the government, and members of left-wing groups; all of whom were imprisoned without due process; some of whom still remain in jail today, never having seen a lawyer or a courtroom.

The operation also provided a chance for secret weapons testing. Some civilians were reportedly pulverized by laser guns and others bled to death from all orifices after being hit by poison darts. It was also the first time that Apache helicopters and F-117A Stealth fighters were used in combat. Panama was the testing ground for Desert Storm, which took place one-year later.

To justify this invasion, the U.S. covert operation teams resorted to dirty tricks to provoke a conflict. When this failed an incident was staged in which an American citizen was conveniently attacked in front of news cameras by a band of unidentified thugs. They were never identified nor caught! Additionally, the Black Operations teams went around partaking in acts of terror against U.S. army bases that were immediately blamed on Panamanian government agents. This exact same tactic of fake terrorism was proposed in the Operation Northwoods documents to justify an invasion of Cuba!

Nothing has changed! Their tactics are old and stale, yet they still manage to fool the American population with the mass media. Wake up America, the only terrorists in the world belong to corporate and military America. 9/11 conveniently permits fascism to raise its head once again.

posted 08-26-2003 02:29 PM            

who cares about the world...

posted 08-26-2003 09:40 PM            

It is time to bring George Bush Sr. and his administration, along with its military command and corporate sponsors before an international court of justice

posted 08-27-2003 12:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
Swamp I thought you were against the NWO, so why do you support an international court? thats exactly what the globalists want.[/B]

---

The NWO and international courts are two separate entities. I do not share the same fear of the UN that other people do. I do not want to see the US swaggering around, acting like a rogue nation, destroying and corrupting everything it gets it's hands on.

BushLaden Productions better behave or the Saudis, Japanese, Chinese, and Europeans will pull the 3 trillion dollar plug on America, and it'll fizzle like an airless balloon.

On the other hand, I would not like to see the UN become another neo-facsist entity either, completely obliterating any sovereignty that the US has.

You see, Prof, I support honest people, be it UN members, policemen, politicians, lawyers, whoever. The US, Israel, and England's politicians have become dishonest, corrupt, and it is a tug-of-war between the UN and these 3 nations, for control of the world. Somebody has to police the US. Who would you suggest do that? Or are you fat and comfortable, and think this nation and it's brittle allies do nothing wrong, or are you ready to wrestle control out of the hands of gloabalists, and back into the people's hands?

posted 08-27-2003 12:46 PM               

Let ordinary Americans deal with the evil of the UN and the rest of the world deal with the evil of the US.

Is that a good division of labour?

posted 08-27-2003 03:51 PM               

And there is a similar sucker clientele on the other side of politics whose votes can be mobilized in support of the U.N.

The U.N. has become much worse and much more of menace to the freedoms of Americans (who are there on the hit list, after the Serbs, the Iraqis, the Koreans...) since Communist state power disintegrated. The American and European petty bourgeoisies, who were higher in the food chain than the unfortunate communists, collaborated vigorously in smashing them and now the time has come for them in turn to be smashed, with similarly vigorous collaboration from the vengeful and disoriented dregs from the former smashing, and the lumpen intelligentsia, orchestrated by the U.N.

That's called the historical dialectic. Sit back and enjoy it. Until it catches up with you.

posted 08-27-2003 06:25 PM            

havla...don't think for a minute you have any leg up, as far as knowledge,of what's going on...you can play that authoritarian crapola with the rest of the class but don't give me your sanctimoniously incorrect opinion regarding me my actions or the one's of this country...

you have been believing a liar for weeks now...

and I had him pegged from the git-go...

get a life...foreigner

posted 08-27-2003 09:08 PM            

As I said, the potential for the UN and US to be entities for the benefit of the people, rather than Defense Contractors, Oil Companies, and most large corporations, is there, but at this point in time, exists only in theory.

Prof,
you seem to always blame Clinton, but fail to see this current p-Resident for what he does. I have even seen on this forum, some Right-Wingers saying Clinton was partially responsible for OK CIty bombing, yet will deny Bush's involvment in WTC attacks. Uh-Huh! Shall we say......partisan? They were both responsible for their respective atrocities.

posted 08-27-2003 10:04 PM               

The polarisation of American politics between purportedly anti-UN Republicans and purportedly pro-UN Democrats is ridiculous.
They are all bullshitters.

And Seeker you too are a bullshitter. If you are against the UN why aren't you vigorously supporting people like Al Snow, the Utah councillor who made his city into a UN-free zone?

Also, telling me that I am a believer in Judah Ben-Hur is of a piece with your general lack of subtlety.

posted 08-28-2003 12:33 AM            

Clinton was no liberal, and Bush is no Conservative.......They are on the same team

posted 08-28-2003 02:31 AM            

I would tend to agree...in the absolute vaguest sense that really any way you go your screwed in politics...the shit is too big....

unfortunately the internet rather than be an information tool...is just a disseminated polar view...in most cases...

early on you seem to have taken the perspective that discussion based on exclusion is healthy and productive....

you are clearly out of your foreign mind...

I sincerely hope the giacom fiasco taught you an important lesson on the decision making process...

listen, ask questions, verify and decide...

THEN SUPPORT

I don't support nor advocate the spreading of bullshit sir...unless it is on my garden...

word to your mother....

posted 08-28-2003 02:59 AM               

[QUOTE]Originally posted by halva:
....what do you think of the initiatives of people like Al Snow, the councillor of La Verkin, Utah, who has just published a book called "Chemtrails, Death from the Sky"?
La Verkin, Utah made headlines when it was declared a UN-Free zone. Al Snow was a prime mover in that too.

Judah Ben-Hur
Halva:
I agree with Mr. Snow and will be in contact with him soon! I support what you say!

Halva continues:
Note this exchange with Seeker:
Halva: The U.N. has become much worse and much more of menace to the freedoms of Americans

Seeker: havla...don't think for a minute you have any leg up, as far as knowledge,of what's going on...you can play that authoritarian crapola with the rest of the class but don't give me your sanctimoniously incorrect opinion regarding me my actions or the one's of this country...

you have been believing a liar for weeks now...

and I had him pegged from the git-go...

Halva's present comment:
You have put your credibility on the line, Dr. Judah Ben-Hur, saying that you will contact councillor Snow.

Will Seeker be forced to eat his words, or will you be?

posted 08-28-2003 03:34 AM            

quickly, his most recent post was a cut and paste of the so called chemtrail bill...which is old news fella..way old...so old it has already been re-written and does not even include the word chemtrails...

I was there when it all went down that day...

you DO believe the liar ben dover and it is clear !

your chain is being jerked and you don't seem to realize it...

which makes you a risk

your looking for justification in being misled and I will not participate in such...

I see no reason to discuss obvious lies and deceit any further...

posted 08-28-2003 06:51 AM            

Yea Baby....sounds like the boys have finally found the ultimate toy to bring the terrorist supporting countries to their knees Show these assholes who want to F*** with the United States that we are NOT going to play around with them. God I love the United States of America

posted 08-28-2003 08:44 AM            

P/V I did not address the original topic of this thread for two reasons...

jeff rense...

but hey if true the more gizmo's we got the better...

posted 08-28-2003 10:44 PM            

shitoga occasionally sounds like that old half human half machine dude in the wheel chair that screamed "exterminate ! exterminate" !