posted 09-25-2003 09:41 PM            

Shut up! OK,That direct enough fro you? I just stepped outside myself, and evaluated what I'd say next to you.

Now, what I am saying is that you are a NWO stooge because you believe what comes from corporate media and the government, and place your trust in corrupt ruling elite, and not in the victim or little guy or gal. I'll push you phonies back.

Don't be accusing of serious mental conditions that I assure you I am absent from. I hold a very important postion at a high tech company, plus run my own business, and I doubt paranoia would be able to be hidden. Yes, I am a socialist that likes money. Got a problem with that?

posted 09-25-2003 09:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mech:

Video Evidence of Pre-Collapse Explosions At WTC

By Henrik Melvang
From: www.bombsinsidewtc.dk www.unmask.dk

When I was loading up old and new videomaterial for my coming "2003 video doc." on the Sept.11 Terror Attack - I suddenly discovered TWO NEW perfect Video Evidences. These two new video evidences will be shown on my next Video release together with many other evidences.

This is what I just DISCOVERED:
FACT:
The FBI and the Medias deliberate FAKED the TIMELINE of many "Pre-Collapse- Explosion- events" at the WTC - in order to cover up, that "BOMBS inside" and "BOMBS below" the WTC were detonated at Street level and in the BASEMENT- PRIOR to both the Tower collapses.

We already have many evidences of this ,........ - but last week I found ,.....TWO New:

TIMELINE EVIDENCE #1:

A New Video Discovery from "abc?" - shows that a journalist man (and a female abc-journalist!?) are running up the street - away from the WTC, and finally ends up hiding behind a car.

QUESTION: Why did they run away from the WTC ?
The Media showed this video on Sept. 11 and told us all, that these persons on the video ran away from WTC because the Tower had just begun collapsing.
That is a Lie!

FACT: They ran away because they heard an explosion and saw the dust cloud from this detonation taking place at STREET LEVEL. The dust cloud came from a bomb detonated at the Street Level (or below) - and certainly not from the falling Tower debris ! (Because at this point both towers were still standing)

MEDIA COVER UP:
The medias did not play the original soundtrack of these BOMBS being detonated. The Medias CENSORED both the PICTURES and the SOUND of this particular clip.

EVIDENCE:
I have seen this "run away journalist clip" mixed into other WTC collapse sequences. Both ABC/CNN and many other TV stations made this fake-mix. That is EVIDENCE of FRAUD! They are deliberately FAKING the Video record and the TIMELINE of the WTC events!

PROOF:
I found a special version of the Clip were the "editors" forgot to "cut away" in their "video mix" ,...... which mean that in a second or two at the end of the Clip,.....the camera is "panning from behind a Car", and in the direction from North towards South,..............and there you go: BOTH TOWERS are STILL Standing TALL!!

CONCLUSION:
They were NOT running away from falling Tower debris... No, they ran away from,........ a Huge BOMB detonated at STREET LEVEL!

TIMELINE EVIDENCE #2:
Another Clip with huge dust clouds from the PRIOR EXPLOSIONS at the WTC STREET LEVEL - also shows People running away from the WTC

MEDIA-MANIPULATION of video clip #2:
Also this clip was FAKED by the MEDIAS. They did not want the TV viewers to understand that this was an additional Street-Explosion. This clip#2 showed a Dust cloud from at BOMB detonated at Street Level. But the medias have mixed this clip ALONG with OTHER collapse Sequences - so that they FIRST showed the Tower collapsing with debris falling, and then they MIXED IN and "put in" the said "other Clip #2" along with their COLLAPSE sequences. (That is deliberately faking the evidence)

Consequence of this Manipulation:
All the TV viewers were manipulated to believe that the people they saw running on the street were running away from the falling TOWER debris. But they were not! They were running away from a BOMB just being detonated at Street level.

PROOF:
I have measured the DURATION of the clip (in seconds) and the EVIDENCE is indisputable. If we compare with other video clips from the Real collapse of 2WTC then we can prove that the "real debris-cloud" generated from the Tower collapse filled the "NAMED Street",.... Totally with SMOKE from Debris in less than 5 seconds. (I can tell this for sure because I followed and AMBULANCE moving in the Streets,.......the ambulance arrived just as the #2 WTC collapsed and the driver managed to back away,............before the debris cloud hit it. My calculation is indisputable and correct) WATCH the video!

On the OTHER clip (That with the Explosion) the firefighters and other spectators had more than 25 seconds - before the CLOUD reached them. And you can even see a man with a camera ,....WALKING BACK,..... TOWARDS the DUST CLOUD ! He walked back because this Dust cloud was not in rapid motion. Around him were numerous of other persons who did not run away. Had this been falling debris - then the cloud would have hit them in less than 5 seconds. Eyewitness have explained that the dust clouds from falling Tower debris created a rapid "dust speed" of up to 50 mph close to WTC. But the clip #2 dust cloud moved very slow because it was not caused by falling debris.

FACT:
The real "Tower collapse DEBRIS Cloud" was in rapid motion when it hit the street. Some say that it went as fast as 80km/hour (No man can run that fast). But the "dust cloud from the EXPLOSION" (clip#2) in contrary was VERY slow and not dangerous at all , because nothing had collapsed yet.

CONCLUSION:
This clearly shows that the FBI/MEDIAS covered up that BOMBS were detonated at Streetlevel ,...........several seconds (or minutes?) BEFORE the collapse! One or more CAMERAMEN must be involved in this Scam,..........or they are more stupid than the POLICE allows one to be !!!?? Please circulate this astonishing NEW Video Timeline EVIDENCE!

Best Regards,
Henrik Melvang
Danish scientist and author

---

---------------------------------------------

posted 09-25-2003 10:21 PM            

Quote from the above article: “Corley said he had not seen the photos of the extremely high-speed missile-like object seen streaking toward WTC 6 from behind the North Tower as the second plane hit the South Tower”.

Its funny, over a year ago there were quite a few links with different images of this explosion and the missile-like object. Seems they’ve all disappeared. I’m surprised this one is still around (at least it was a couple weeks back). This has an animated paste up of the streaking missile. http://www.geocities.com/streakingobject/index.html

Toward the bottom here, you can see the crated where WTC 6 once stood. Doesn’t look like it collapsed due to debris to me. http://serendipity.fakelabs.org/wot/wtc_other.htm

The Professor: It was not just one person that heard the explosions.

Here’s a quote from Firefighter Louie Cacchioli, “We think there were bombs set in the building”.

Here are a few quotes (regarding explosion and demolition) from former Auxiliary Police Officer Paul Isaac Jr., “many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.” AND “There were definitely bombs in those buildings.” AND “You could never build a truss building that high. A slight wind would knock it over! Those buildings were supported by reinforced steel. Buildings don’t just implode like that; this was a demolition.”

And here is an interesting account of Stationary Engineer Mike Pecoraro: http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/underground/underground_explosions.htm

posted 09-25-2003 10:39 PM            

Now, what I am saying is that you are a NWO stooge because you believe what comes from corporate media and the government, and place your trust in corrupt ruling elite, and not in the victim or little guy or gal. I'll push you phonies back.

posted 09-25-2003 11:06 PM            

Our government has played the divide and rule game,
for so long that some of us fail to realize we are in agreement on principle,
yet biased as to whom to blame.

that is exactly the goal of th eNWO.

Keep us at each others' throats while they rule us all.

their greatest fear?
that we may realixe there are more of us than there are of them.

I personally think the French got it right.

Nobody inheriting wealth to use to rule over all others= an end to rule of the many by the few.

Progressive income tax was designed to eliminate the aristocracy of inherited wealth.

born rich like W?
does that make you able to get an unearned degree from princeton?
Yes!
does that make you able to desert from th emilitary with impugnity?
Yes!
does that make you able to flaunt the law and treat commoners like dirt?
Yes!

America has become amerika.

a third world nation without the right to have our votes actually counted.
without freedom of speech.

Masses subservient to an elite minority.

Cannot continue, must go vomit while contemplating the Bush dictatorship.

sorry

posted 09-26-2003 09:24 AM            

I am honest.....you are a spokesperson for the ruling elite, be it by proxy or directly.

YOUR neo-fascist empire is crumbling before our eyes. You and your boys in Washington have to obliterate the Constitution to attampt to keep America afloat. Funding Oil companies and defense contractors are a terrible way to stimulate an economy. Oceania vs Eurasia, right? Perpetual War....How Orwellian!

It bothers you that I am a socialist and enjoy money? Tough!! Hybrid thinking always bothers 2 dimensional thinkers. I don't mind giving my money and support to the weak and downtrodden, but I sure don't like giving it to oil companies and defense contractors. Neo-Cons don't seem to mind giving to the rich, but would use the poor as a doormat. Money is a tool....used either to create and enlighten, or destroy and imprison.

The pendulum swings again. It will eventually come to a rest when everybody is content.

So here's a question for you Professor, what would you do to remedy the chasm between the people of the USA, short of creating 2 nations, one conservative and one liberal? It seems this is the only country where the general population is so divided, much more than even the Vietnam War.

Meanwhile us socialists, humanists, liberals, pagans, and peaceniks are here to stay. We pre-date fundamentalists. Better get used to us. Your Inquisitions and Witch Hunts didn't deter us, and your new Tomas de Torquemada, Ashcroft, won't do it either.

posted 09-26-2003 11:25 AM            

New York Times, November 29, 2001

THE SITE
Engineers Suspect Diesel Fuel in Collapse of 7 World Trade Center
By JAMES GLANZ

Almost lost in the chaos of the collapse of the World Trade Center is a mystery that under normal circumstances would probably have captured the attention of the city and the world. That mystery is the collapse of a nearby 47-story, two-million-square-foot building seven hours after flaming debris from the towers rained down on it, igniting what became an out-of-control fire.

Engineers and other experts, who quickly came to understand how hurtling airplanes and burning jet fuel had helped bring down the main towers, were for weeks still stunned by what had happened to 7 World Trade Center. That building had housed, among other things, the mayor's emergency command bunker. It tumbled to its knees shortly after 5:20 on the ugly evening of Sept. 11.

The building had suffered mightily from the fire that raged in it, and it had been wounded by the flying beams falling off the towers. But experts said no building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire, and engineers have been trying to figure out exactly what happened and whether they should be worried about other buildings like it around the country.

As engineers and scientists struggle to explain the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, they have begun considering whether a type of fuel that was inside the building all along created intensely hot fires like those in the towers: diesel fuel, thousands of gallons of it, intended to run electricity generators in a power failure.

One tank holding 6,000 gallons of fuel was in the building to provide power to the command bunker on the 23rd floor. Another set of four tanks holding as much as 36,000 gallons were just below ground on the building's southwest side for generators that served some of the other tenants.

Engineers and other experts have already uncovered evidence at the collapse site suggesting that some type of fuel played a significant role in the building's demise, but they expect to spend months piecing together the picture of what remains a disturbing puzzle.

"Even though Building 7 didn't get much attention in the media immediately, within the structural engineering community, it's considered to be much more important to understand," said William F. Baker, a partner in charge of structural engineering at the architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. "They say, `We know what happened at 1 and 2, but why did 7 come down?' "

Engineers said that here and across the country, diesel-powered generators are used in buildings like hospitals and trading houses, where avoiding power outages is crucial. Partly for that reason, Jonathan Barnett said, a definitive answer to the question of what happened in 7 World Trade Center is perhaps the most important question facing investigators.

"It's just like when you investigate a plane crash," said Dr. Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute. "If we find a weakness in the building or a deficiency in the building that causes that collapse, we then want to find that weakness in other buildings and fix it."

In many ways, 7 World Trade Center, built and owned by Silverstein Properties, was structurally similar to its towering cousins across Vesey Street to the south. The weight of the building was supported by a relatively tight cluster of steel columns around the center of each floor and a palisade of columns around the outside, in the building's facade.

Sprayed on the steel, almost like imitation snow in holiday decorations, was a layer of fireproofing material, generally less than an inch thick. Although the fireproofing was intended to withstand ordinary fires for at least two hours, experts said buildings the size of 7 World Trade Center that are treated with such coatings have never collapsed in a fire of any duration.

Most of three other buildings in the complex, 4, 5 and 6 World Trade, stood despite suffering damage of all kinds, including fire.

Still, experts concede, in a hellish day, 7 World Trade might have sustained structural injuries never envisioned in fire codes. That day began with flaming pieces of steel and aluminum and, horribly, human bodies raining around the building.

With the collapse of both towers by 10:30 a.m., larger pieces of the twin towers had smashed parts of 7 World Trade and set whole clusters of floors ablaze. An hour later, the Fire Department was forced to abandon its last efforts to save the building as it burned like a giant torch. It fell in the late afternoon, hampering rescue efforts and hurling its beams into the ground like red-hot spears.

Within the building, the diesel tanks were surrounded by fireproofed enclosures. But some experts said that like the jet fuel in the twin towers, the diesel fuel could have played a role in the collapse of 7 World Trade.

"If the enclosures were damaged, then yes, this would be enough fuel to explain why the building collapsed," Dr. Barnett said.

Dr. Barnett and Mr. Baker are part of an assessment team organized by the American Society of Civil Engineers and the Federal Emergency Management Agency to examine the performance of several buildings during the attacks. If further studies of the debris confirm the findings of extremely high temperature, Dr. Barnett said, "the smoking gun would be the fuel."

Others experts agreed that the diesel fuel could have speeded the collapse, but said the building might have met the same fate simply because of how long it burned.

"The fuel absolutely could be a factor," said Silvian Marcus, executive vice president for the Cantor Seinuk Group and a structural engineer involved in the original design of the building, which was completed in 1987. But he added, "The tanks may have accelerated the collapse, but did not cause the collapse."

Because of those doubts, engineers hold open the possibility that the collapse had other explanations, like damage caused by falling debris or another source of heat.

The fuel tanks were not the only highly flammable materials in the building. But while some engineers have speculated that a high-pressure gas main ruptured and caught fire, there was none in the area, said David Davidowitz, vice president of gas engineering at Consolidated Edison. The building was served only by a four-inch, low-pressure line for the building's cafeteria, Mr. Davidowitz said.

The mayor's command bunker, built in 1998, included electrical generators on the seventh floor, where there was a small fuel tank, said Jerome M. Hauer, director of the mayor's Office of Emergency Management from 1996 to 2000. That tank was fed by a tank containing thousands of gallons of diesel fuel on a lower floor, he said.

Francis E. McCarton, a spokesman for the emergency management office, confirmed that assessment. "We did have a diesel tank in the facility," he said. "Yes, it was used for our generating system."

The manager of the building when it collapsed, Walter Weems, said the larger tank sat on a steel-and-concrete pedestal on the second floor and held 6,000 gallons of diesel fuel. He said an even larger cache, four tanks containing a total of 36,000 gallons of diesel fuel, sat just below ground level in the loading dock near the southwest corner of the building.

"I'm sure that with enough heat it would have burned," Mr. Hauer said of the diesel. "The question is whether the collapse caused the tank to rupture, or whether the material hitting the building caused the tank to rupture and enhance the fire."

Falling debris also caused major structural damage to the building, which soon began burning on multiple floors, said Francis X. Gribbon, a spokesman for the Fire Department. By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons.

A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr. Barnett said.

posted 09-26-2003 05:32 PM            

Meanwhile us socialists, humanists, liberals, pagans, and peaceniks are here to stay. We pre-date fundamentalists. Better get used to us. Your Inquisitions and Witch Hunts didn't deter us, and your new Tomas de Torquemada, Ashcroft, won't do it either.

Strike a chord with you there, Professor Jimmy Swaggart?

posted 09-26-2003 08:57 PM            

There will always be those who choose
to build themselves up by tearing others down.
That is the basic tenent of conservatism.

That irrational belief: "I'm better than you are." is the basis of conservatism.

that we are all just people;
trying to feed our families,
is the truth that gives the lie to every conservative belief.

they think they are superior to everyone else.
that only 'they' respect law and order...
that only 'they' know what is right and good

that 'they' support a travesty of all which they claim to hold as decent and honerable/
never enters their thought controlled minds.

Praise bush/
Love bush/
that is the mantra of those who are so deluded they are unable to see the truth in front of their eyes.

Their cult controls their minds.
Pity them.
We cannot argue with them.
they believe only lies from their own side.
Truth from anyone else is ignored.

posted 09-26-2003 09:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
[B]You and your kind can do nothing other than label and accuse and at the same time you make yourself look entirely foolish.

---

And what exactly is "your kind", dipstick?

Looks like you are exposing your Holier-than-thou religious pseudo-superiority again.

posted 09-27-2003 12:32 AM            

September 25, 2003

Two weeks and counting.

After that, the independent commission investigating the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, 2001, says it is going to blow the whistle. Again.

"We spend a long time on negotiating on access," said former Rep. Lee Hamilton of Indiana, the 9/11 commission co-chairman. "And we have laid down a marker here in which we indicate that we need this information in two weeks' time. So we are approaching a crunch point, I believe."

You may wonder why, two years after the attacks that slaughtered more than 3,000 people and set the United States on a course of indefinite war, it has come down to these two weeks. The families of Sept. 11 surely do. It is nine months, after all, since the commission - the only one empowered to fully probe the events of that day - was established. There are only eight more left until, by law, it expires.

The answer is that the White House has never wanted this commission. It fought against it for a year. Once it became politically impossible to stop, the administration engaged in a rear-guard action to slow its work, a stall meant to last until May, when the panel goes out of existence. Documents and witnesses were coming forth with such determined sluggishness that Hamilton, a Democrat, and his Republican counterpart, former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean, voiced concern about being thwarted. Since their extraordinary public complaint in July, much has gone better. Surprise.

"We had, shortly after that, a genuine flood of documents," Kean said at the panel's briefing on Tuesday.

Even from the White House. And except from the White House.

"Pending requests seek additional sensitive documents," the commission's latest report to the people says. "Extensive negotiations" continue and the commission has received "certain assurances" - but not all it needs - from the White House.

"We will inform the public very promptly if the commission does not receive the access that we need to do our job," Kean said.

The joint congressional committee that probed intelligence failures before the 9/11 attacks wrote, in its final report, a 15-page appendix about this very trouble. "Access Limitations Encountered by the Joint Inquiry," the chapter is called.

Information withheld from Congress included the president's daily brief, especially a crucial one produced in August 2001 that warned of possible terrorist attacks, including hijackings. Information relating to the development of a Bush counter-terrorism policy before 9/11 also was kept from the lawmakers.

"We will be very disappointed if we have to have such an appendix," Kean said.

The secrecy does not arise from worry over classified material. Reams of it was given to the congressional inquiry. More has gone to the independent commission. In the end, the executive branch agencies - the CIA, the FBI, the Defense Department, the White House - have the power to black out sensitive material from any eventual public report. Remember those 28 blank pages in the congressional report that are said to be about the Saudis?

"We have no power to declassify," Hamilton said. "The declassification power resides with the president."

So, too, does the power to let the 9/11 commission do its job.

In two weeks' time, this president must decide. He can live up to the rhetoric of cooperation and allow a full and fair inquiry into the catastrophe that redefined his presidency and all of our lives. Or he can assert executive privilege, withholding from the panel whatever White House documents, pretty much, he chooses.

The commission then would be duty-bound to tell us what these are. How could it do otherwise? The truth is not to be found in acquiescence.

The choice, when it is made, will have nothing at all to do with national security, though this would undoubtedly be the claim. It is, in the end, a matter of political security and how this White House decides to define it.
Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

Like this investigation will produce anything!

The wives of 9/11 victims have their own investigation going. They may dig up more evidence than this crew!

posted 09-27-2003 10:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
Your bias shows you think christain faith is a fraud. Because one sees abortion as death he's the wicked? I believe in the same God as the founding fathers yet I'm unamerican, and yet you call yourself a constituionalist. I don't know how you can if you can't even respect the moral codes of the founding fathers.

---

You are a phoney Christian, not a true Christian, that's why. The Jesus I enjoy is one detached from dogma, a peace loving person, not a belligerent A-hole, like your hero Dumpya.

As I've said, pick your myth, and live by it. If you want to think that liberals, pagans, Arabs, Muslims, and gays are lower forms of life, unless they are your particular form of Christianity, then expect to get it back.

posted 09-27-2003 10:02 PM            

The following people on these boards have said they liked the song:
chem11
Mech
EMFX13
Jeanie
amber
David
JerseyBLueyz
Thermit
bigjoe
Dan Rockwell
Jenna
Dack57
donSlepian
Raezzor
BDuncan

Should I believe thm or you?

Go ahead, I've been asked by the council to refrain, but if you continue, you are spelling your own demise here.

I will not call you names like you call me, but I will address you in simple psychological, nuerological, and social terms.

AND ONE LAST THING....ARE YOU ACCUSING ME OF DEVIANT SEXUAL PRACTICES?

THIS IS GETTING REPORTED TO THE COUNCIL, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD BE BANNED IMMEDIATELY?

posted 09-28-2003 09:10 AM            

What sets them apart is they dont sound like every stupid, common denominator, money making, mass marketed group coming out of hollywood.

Can't think of a better vehicle than music and modern technology to wake up the sleeping masses.

If you have the tools...use them!

Thus spoke the mechanic.

posted 09-28-2003 11:52 AM            

Thanks for being yourselves.

KT, The reason I didn't put you on the previous supporter list, is I hadn't heard from you either way. I should have known you would support the bizarre and the ununsual, so I apologize fro not including you.

That goes for anyone else I forgot.

The reason we write and do graphics/video is simple. It is support for the true little guy or gal, the one's put under the thumbs of the ruling elite, and to waken our own minds up more, and anybody else that wishes to come along.

posted 09-29-2003 08:16 AM            

It went" It's better to be hated or loved, than ignored"

Thus Professor proves Stravinsky's and my point. Thank you Professor for hating Noble Gas.