posted 09-27-2003 11:07 PM               

quote:

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Neither democrat or republican will fix this. Are you getting it yet?

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Oh well, I guess I'll just give up on voting, give up on being a military officer, quit, turn in my uniform, and go hide in an office writing angry rants on the internet. Yes, that'll fix the country, Mech.

There are many, many folks in uniform and out of uniform trying their darndest everyday to do their job to the best of their abilities hoping that they'll make a positive contribution to our country. And you sneer at all of them and tell them the only true way to be a patriot is to be a little angry man on a computer. I don't buy it.

According to you, the only way to "fix" the country is overthrow the US government. And then what, Mech? Gonna vote yourself for prez? Will we see all the anti-government types get bamboozled with power that they themselves get corrupted and then what?

That's the problem with a sudden over-the-top "revolution". Those at the core of the revolution often get the idea that everyone else "owes" them, and they wind up taking the reigns of power and actually being worse than the folks they toppled. No, I'm not going to be part of that.

There's another way to make our government and military better. It's called will power. It's called sticking it out and keeping close to your convictions. It's all about "to be or to do", as I pointed to in the above quote by Boyd. You can "be" the guy who gets attention screaming "down with Bush" and making silly Bush-Hitler posters. Or you can be the professional officer/politician/government worker who does his or her job right and doesn't cave to power or greed.

posted 09-27-2003 11:11 PM            

AGAIN.

This country is NOT our own anymore.

I wasn't fighting for America. Ive learned that now. I fought for a tiny cabal that controls most of the world sad to say. It was hard to accept..but I did it. Still believe in my constitutional oath though.

Its up to you to decide what YOU are going to do about it.

Will you be a participant in the shell game..or will you help break it apart and EXPOSE IT for what it is?

You choose.

Choose wisely.

posted 09-27-2003 11:19 PM               

I see what I am programmed to see? What the heck, am I suddenly a machine? Last I checked I can move my eyeballs wherever I want to move them.

I talked to a number of folks on the streets of Doha, in Kuwait, and in Oman. I guess they were all US secret agents trying to "program" what I hear too.

Robert Fisk can speak "5 or 6" Arab languages? There is one Arab language, it's called "Arabic". There are many dialects. If you speak Arabic, you will probably understand 90% of the folks in the Middle East, except maybe the Kurds (many of whom also speak Arabic) and Iranians (who speak Farsi...but again, many of them also know Arabic).

Mech:

Not trying to "trivialize" veteran's illnesses. I'm trying to illustrate what I have often believed (and many health professionals believe as well): That GWS doesn't have a single root cause. There are literally dozens of sources of toxins and hazardous substances to encounter in a war zone. DU is just one of many. And the human body varies. While most may be able to withstand certain levels of toxins, others may not and can get sick.

The best way to avoid GWS type illnesses is simply to not fight wars. GWS is alot like comparing factory workers with the general population....the factory workers will likely have a higher incidence of disease and health problems.

Dealing with GWS-type illness requires a rational approach, not an approach based on bad science and folks jumping to conclusions. Everything we do in life has risk. People who join the military need to understand that if you go to war, you can suffer adverse health problems.

posted 09-27-2003 11:30 PM            

You really are an elitist.

Does one have to be educated in a formal college sense to know what is going on in front of their face?

I. myself have college, and work in multimedia development, Macintosh troubleshooting, sound engineering, video, and a 30 year band project. I call myself a Socialist who likes money. Not a contradiction, but a hybrid. that said, i still listen to "steet folks". They are the salt of the earth. Animals are strangley the same, as far as premonitions, and extra sensory perception. Sometimes one can get so "linear" trained, that they lose touch with that other sense. You don't really believe that there is only one level of thinking do you? And you really don't believe that college training is the most intelligent thing you can do? I believe Einstein said that sometimes a college education can get in the way of creative thinking.

You are a pilot, so I know you have to depend on "intuition" sometimes to make a quick decision. When I play music, the same thing happens, a jump in logic...you go beyond the training of your ete, hand, and brain, into another dimension, if you will.

Please stop ridiculing Mech. He;s a good, kind, person, very witty, funny, and bright. met him in person, and conversed for 12 hours straight with him, thetaloops, DanRockwell, and Jeanie.

posted 09-27-2003 11:30 PM               

Mech, you're going to fail. Not because you're right or wrong. Not because greed does or does not exist in our country. But because you've stripped yourself of any realistic goals and put on the "I'm gonna save the world" hat. And since you've put yourself in the extremist of extremists group, all you're going to do is piss off people who might otherwise help you. Why? Because you say you believe in your oath you took. Yet you don't trust that any of the other 1 million-plus troops believe in their oaths. You don't trust in any of the public servants who also took an oath. According to Mech, Mech is the only one that knows what to do and how to go about it. Everyone else is "part of the system" or "shell game" as you call it.

That's why you'll fail. You're alone, give or take a few other extremists like yourself on this website. I'd say there are probably less than 10,000 people in this country with your view....that's a miserable .003% of the population. And since you've got that "I'm right, you're wrong and evil" attitude, you're gonna piss off anyone else.

You can't accept anyone else's opinions unless they mirror yours.

examples- I'm not only wrong, but I should be ashamed of myself unless I view Bush as Hitler incarnate as you do. How dare you belittle vets by disagreeing that DU is the sole cause of GWS, or by disagreeing that GWS is destroying vetrans by the household.

posted 09-27-2003 11:40 PM               

Flying an airplane is alot like surgery. You follow procedure, and use various techniques and knowledge to deal with the situations that arise with each different surgery. You NEVER make decisions based upon "gut" reactions, lest you kill your patient because you didn't think before you acted.

Flying an airplane isn't the wild, off-the-cuff seat-of-the-pants job Hollywood makes it out to be. It's a very orderly, disciplined profession. Even aerobatic pilots have a method to the madness, and follow strict routines using very tried-and-true procedures.

As we often say in the aviation world...getting your license (or a degree for that matter) is just a license to learn. Taking classes in hazardous waste management provides a good foundation to learn more about the subject. That being said, someone who's studied the subject is a little more apt to know the details than someone who hasn't.

posted 09-28-2003 07:28 AM            

After all that has been posted here..not just by me...youd think by now you would have WOKEN UP and done the research yourself.I could CARE LESS if you believe ME. But...... do the research yourself. I'm almost convinced now that you WANT a global government Pacer. Tells me a lot about YOUR so-called "intelligence". Yeah you may be a technically proficient pilot and academically gifted in some ways. But you are lacking in common sense. Seems to me you are putting the blinders on when it comes to subjects you are uncomfortable with.That is probably because it directly affects your faith in the system.

"Extremist group" huh? Just WHAT group would that be? The great SIN of free speech. I guess liking the 1st Amendment makes you an "Extremist" in Bush's new "Homeland" America.
I NEVER said I dont trust our troops. YOU are putting words in my mouth. I dont trust this CORRUPT GOVERNMENT. That is the difference between you and me. You say I have all the answers? Hardly. I have a few solutions but mostly my goal is to EXPOSE the globalists for what they are and how they are destroying this country piece by piece.

If you still think this country is ours you are living in a dreamworld.I dont care if you are a pilot or a dumpster diver. You are still blind.

"Im right...youre wrong and evil attitude"

Uh Pacer.... You are Soooooo full of BS. Its sickening.

Exposing corruption and the crimes being perpetrated against this country and a push for unaccountable global government is certainly worth talking about and disseminating that information as far as possible is a worthwhile goal. I can't think of a better way to galvanize people toward action once they learn what the REAL deal is.

Ive watched a Vietnam veteran who put a lifetime of commitment into the system crumble and spit nails when I showed him WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON in this country.

There are a lot more of people like thaat waking up than you think Pacer.

You need to choose whose side you will be on.
Will it be the globalists....or the country I know that you love...America.

posted 09-28-2003 01:12 PM               

For example...if someone says they disagree with you, you tell them they are blind, ignorant and/or stupid. What a great way to sway opinion. Insulting them isn't going to win you converts.

If someone refutes information you put out (for example, that the Air Force was told to stand down on 9-11, which is a false urban legend), you say they either were "told what they wanted you to hear", programmed by "them", or that you're a disinformation agent. How hard is it to at least slightly admit that MAYBE the Air Force did respond, and some of these reports you get from Rense are inaccurate? For you, it's impossible to admit you're wrong, because in your mind, it's akin to admitting your whole premise is wrong. Hence, "extremist" thought.

As for the "stand down", you've got Rense reports, and I've got friends who belong to those units that did indeed launch airplanes into the air.

posted 09-28-2003 08:50 PM            

Re "My Duty as a Soldier" (letter, Sept. 22):

As a reserve military policeman serving in Iraq, I take offense at the letter writer's glorification of combat and criticisms of overstrained National Guardsmen and reservists.

My unit was activated in February. We sat stateside for three months before arriving in Kuwait. We have spent the last four months in Iraq conducting countless raids, keeping law and order and training the new Iraqi police.

We get shot at regularly, endure searing heat and live in less than desirable conditions. While serving my country is a great honor, there is no glory here on the ground.

We still have not been told when we will be redeploying home. Now we hear that reservists will do full 12-month tours "boots on the ground" in Iraq. Many of us are tired, hot and irritated. As far as I'm concerned, reservists serving in Iraq have earned the right to complain.

(Specialist) RICHARD MURPHY

posted 09-28-2003 08:54 PM            

Ahmed Qasm Hamed was dumped in a black sack at the mortuary of the Yarmouk hospital last week. Taleb Neiemah Homtoush turned up at the city morgue with three bullets in his head. Amr Alwan Ibrahim's family brought him to the morgue five minutes later with a bullet through his heart. Amr was to have married his fiancée Naghem in a week's time.

There are flies around the mortuaries and the smell of death, and up at Yarmouk they had so many bodies the other day that I found them lying in the yard because the fridge was already filled with corpses. On stretchers with blankets thrown over them, on the hot concrete beneath the sun, the flies already moving to them in the 45 degree heat. At the city morgue, the morticians appear in dirty green overalls, scarcely glancing at the wailing relatives by the gate, slumped in tears beside a lake of sewage.

After a while - after hours, day after day at the mortuaries - you get to know the victims. Their fathers and wives and cousins tell you how they dressed, how they worked, how many children they have left behind.

Often the children are there beside the cheap wooden coffins, screaming and crying and numb with loss. The families weep and they say that no one cares about them and, after expressing our sorrow to them over and over again, I come to the conclusion they are right. No one cares. "Al baqiya fi hayatek," we tell them in Arabic which, roughly translated, means "May his lost life be yours in the future." But it is lost for ever - his life, and, by even the most conservative estimates, those of 10,000 other Iraqi civilians gunned down since we "liberated" Baghdad on 9 April.

Here, for the record, are just a few of last week's cull. Hassan Ahmed was 26. At the morgue, his cousin Sadeq produces a photograph of the young man for me. Hassan is smiling, he has a thin, slightly bearded face and is wearing a bright purple shirt. His father, a soldier, was killed in the Iran-Iraq war in 1982, when Hassan was just five years old. At 3pm last Wednesday, he was walking in the street in his home neighbourhood of Al-Biyar in Baghdad when someone - no one knows who or why - shot him twice in the head.

Old Sarhan Daoud is almost toothless and bespectacled and is standing outside the doors of the Baghdad city morgue in a long white "dishdash" robe. A few hours earlier, his only sons, 19-year-old Ahmed and 27-year-old Ali were gunned down outside their Baghdad home. There is talk of a revenge killing but the father isn't certain. "We are just trapped in this tragedy," Sarhan says. "There were very few killings like this before. Now everyone uses guns. Please tell about our tragedy." After half an hour, waiting beside the pool of sewage, shoved aside as other corpses are brought into the morgue - the coffins come from the mosques and are re-used day after day - Ahmed and Ali are brought out in their plywood caskets and roped to the top of a minivan into which cousins and uncles and the old father climb for the funeral journey to the family's home village near Baquba.

The family of Amr Ibrahim say they know who shot the 30-year-old construction worker on Wednesday. They even gave the name to the American-paid Iraqi police force. But the police did nothing. "It is anarchy that we live through," his uncle Daher says. "Then, when we get here, they charge us 15,000 dinars (£5) for the autopsy - otherwise we can't have a death certificate. First we are robbed of life. Then they take our money." For many in Iraq, £5 is a month's wages.

Twenty-six-year-old Fahad Makhtouf was knifed to death near his home on Tuesday night. His uncle speaks slowly. "No one cares about our tragedy. No one cares about us."

Up at the Yarmouk, they've had a bad week. Mortada Karim has just received the bodies of three men, all shot dead, from local police stations. All are believed to have been murdered by thieves. "Four days ago, we had one of the worst cases," he says. "A mother and her child. There had been a wedding party and people had been shooting in the air. The Americans opened fire and the woman and her child were hit and killed." On the same day, they received an Iraqi man, killed by his father because they had quarrelled over the loot they had both stolen in Baghdad.

Last month, a family of nine were brought to the Yarmouk. The mortuary attendants believe the five women were found by their brothers in a brothel and in the subsequent "honour killings" their brothers were caught up in a gun battle.

On the walls of the city mortuary, families have for weeks left photographs of those who have simply disappeared. "We lost Mr Abdul-emir al-Noor al-Moussawi last Wednesday, 11 June, 2003, in Baghdad," it says beneath the photograph of a dignified man in suit and tie. "He is 71 years old. Hair white. Wearing a grey dishdash. A reward will be paid to anyone with information." Or there is 16-year-old Beida Jaffer Sadr, a schoolgirl apparently kidnapped in Baghdad - her story has already been told in The Independent - whose father's telephone number is printed below her picture. "Blond hair, brown eyes, wearing a black skirt," it says.

The occupation powers, the so-called "Provisional Coalition Authority", love statistics when they are useful. They can tell you the number of newly re-opened schools, newly appointed doctors and the previous day's oil production in seconds. The daily slaughter of Iraq's innocents, needless to say, is not among their figures. So here are a few statistics. On Wednesday of last week, the Baghdad city morgue received 19 corpses, of which 11 were victims of gunfire. The next day, the morticians received 11 dead, of whom five had been killed by bullets. In May, approximately 300 murder victims were brought to the morgue, in June around 500, in July 600, last month about 700. In all of July of last year - under Saddam's regime - Dr Abdullah Razak, the deputy head of the morgue, says that only 21 gunshot victims were brought in.

Of course, it's possible to put a gloss on all this. Saddam ruled through terror. If there was security in Baghdad under his regime, there was mass murder in Kurdistan and in the Shia south of Iraq. Tens of thousands have been found in the mass graves of Iraq, men - and women - who had no death certificates, no funerals, no justice. At the Abu Ghraib prison, the head doctor, Hussain Majid - who has been reappointed by the prison's new American guards - told me that when "security prisoners" were hanged at night, he was ordered not to issue death certificates.

It might be argued that under the previous regime, the government committed the crimes. Now, the people commit them. How can the Americans be held to account for honour killings? But they are accountable, for it is the duty of the occupying power to protect the people under their control. The mandate of the CPA requires it to care for the people of Iraq. And they don't care.

None of the above statistics take into account the hundreds of shooting incidents in which the victims are wounded rather than killed. In the Kindi hospital, for example, I come across a man whose father was caretaker of a factory. "Looters came and he opened fire on them and then the Americans came and shot my father because he was holding his gun," he said. "He's had two operations, and he'll live. But no one came to see us. No one came to say sorry. Nobody cared."

One of the most recent corpses to arrive is that of Saad Mohamed Sultan. He was an official interpreter for the occupying powers and was, incredibly, shot dead by an American soldier on a convoy as he travelled with an Italian diplomat to Mosul. After shooting him, the Americans drove calmly on. They didn't bother to stop to find out who they'd killed. Saad was 35. He had a wife and two children.

In the yard of the City Morgue, a group of very angry young men have gathered. They are Shia and, I suspect, members of the Badr Brigade. They are waiting for the coffin of Taleb Homtoush who was killed by three bullets fired into his head as he stood at the door of his Baghdad home on Wednesday. Taleb had lost his legs in the Iran-Iraq war. Two of his brothers were killed in the same conflict. Another cousin who will not give his name, a tall man, is spitting in anger as he speaks.

posted 09-28-2003 10:50 PM            

Eyewitnesses see only what is in front of them.
A recent trip by a journalist.
Recounted hundreds of Iraqis waving to him as his military helicopter flew over them.

Hey now:
Helicopter, bristling with weapons,
just like the ones that helped kill tens of thousands of your countrymen.
Knowing that the invaders' helicopters flew over unarmed farms and murdered women and children;
Knowing that daily; foriegn invaders scream incomprehensible orders in their foriegn tongue
then murder unarmed motorists at roadblocks;
(because people who speak only Farsi, failed to understand English)

Foreign invaders who kill even the Quisling police they use to opress you.

Hmmm..
Do you wave and smile?
Or do you express your true emotions and get machinegunned?

posted 09-29-2003 01:54 PM            

Pacer:
I wish I read the tail end of this thread yesterday – somehow I missed it. I’m going to back pedal here a little to the issue of Depleted Uranium. Maybe this will help convince you (as well as show others who come across this thread) that your information regarding Depleted Uranium is actually disinformation. I’m not saying you’re purposely trying to deceive yourself or us here, but I think you need to do a little research in the biotech field yourself. I know you eventually admitted that DU is not totally "safe", but it did not appear that you are actually aware of the dangers. I do not claim to know much about nukes, but I was made aware of Dr. Rosalie Bertell a few years back through my practice field. I believe you will find that she does not “lack credentials” and has an “educated approach” to her research:
http://www.iicph.org/docs/cv_rosalie_bertell.htm

Here are two of her reports. Among other things, the first report (fairly short) talks about the potential causes of Gulf War Syndrome. The second report (fairly long) discusses the biological effects of radiation. Both are excellent reads.
http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_book.html
http://www.ratical.com/radiation/NRBE/NRadBioEffects.html

If the above was not enough to convince you of the dangers of radiation AND how we - the public - are lied to about its harm, at this Home Page (where I located some of the above) you will find various stats. There are posts by sources such as Unicef, the World Health Organization, the World Nuclear Federation and a number of highly esteemed scientists.
http://members.rogers.com/duranium/

Quotes from Dr. Rosalie Bertell (what a woman!):

Biostatistical detection of problems needs to be followed by pathological, cytological and other confirmatory studies. No such serious systematic commitment to public health is evident relative to this nuclear issue anywhere in the world. Governments seem unaware that economic and military policies can be destructive of human health within the nation.

The United States, a leading nuclear nation, has failed to provide any reliable human health study either to confirm or to deny its prediction of the human health effects of exposure to chronic low level radiation, or even to provide a systematic health follow-up of the significant groups exposed to radiation so that there will in time be such a reliable study.

posted 09-29-2003 03:41 PM            

Thats easy!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Certain globalist bank accounts cant live without it.

You think they really care who lives or dies?

Pfffff!!!

The military-industrial complex was planned.

Its a legacy we all have to live with because of our acceptance.

posted 10-11-2003 06:17 PM            

would fight to take back our country from the foreign invaders.

attacks on foreign invaders by iraqi freedom fighters?

american soldiers screaming incomprehensible orders to people who speak the only arab dialect Farsi.
they then follow by shooting unarmed civilians.

would I have had the courage to desert during Nam had I known then what I know now.

posted 10-13-2003 09:53 AM            

CIA , Neo-Con, and Zionist controlled US media try and paint a rosy picture that the Iraqis want US Imperialists to occupy their country, and shoot their citizens. They do not.