posted 09-27-2003 08:58 PM               

It angers me to no end that the picture Americans here in the states are receiving isn't the "big picture". They are shown all of the bad news, but next to nothing when it comes to the good news.

Ask the average American how things are going in Iraq, they'd probably say "those boys are dropping like flies and the Iraqis hate us".

I'm probably one of the few people on this message board to have been in Iraq. I've been to Kirkuk and an Nasariyah. I parked our airplane on the same spot the C-130 that evacuated the now over-famous Pvt. Lynch at Tallil Air Base. More importantly, I've been amongst arabs in a number of middle eastern countries, and I've talked to Iraqis and Americans serving in Iraq.

My impression was a positive one. Arabs don't all hate America. Many of them like America. Their reasons for opposing the American invasion of Iraq wasn't one of Mech's reasons (ie, imperialism, colonialism, oil, etc), but simply because Arabs, as I've learned, are very wary of ANY outsiders, and like to take care of their own matters. They would have opposed ANY invasion, no matter who did it, so long as it wasn't another Arab country.

None of the arabs I spoke to viewed Hussein as any kind of hero, and most welcomed his fall. Nearly all I spoke to indicated they hope America won't abandon the Iraqis, but they also want the "rebuilding" to move quickly (again, getting back to that dislike of outsiders).

I was treated very well by all the Arabs I encountered. The Omani Air Force folks were very helpful, and took the time to help me convert gallons to liters to refuel the airplane. That was a stark contrast with how we were treated in the Cayman Islands, where the line attendant was very rude.

Back to Iraq, Kirkuk is a dirty town, but so are most of the middle eastern cities in the poorer countries. I watched kids play in the street just outside of the air base gate, and they waved at us. The soldiers in Kirkuk were busy, and were under stress of combat, but things were looking up. Looking at the city, it was hard to tell that this was a war zone...people went about their business.

In Nasariyah, prior to there being any centralized command at the nearby Tallil Air Base, soldiers and airmen were being invited into Iraqi homes and fed local meals. Most of the Iraqis loved the Americans. Most of Nasariyah has electricity, and the entire city had running water as of July. Life for them is better, even with the occupation. That's evidenced by the contrast of the drained wetlands nearby....when you fly out of Iraq, you cross over hundreds of square miles of drained, dry, barren former wetlands that Hussein destroyed to punish the southern Iraqi shiite population.

As for the idea that Iraq is spiraling out of control, and that it's become our modern-day "Vietnam", that's hogwash. Iraq is getting better by the day. The problems we are having isn't coming from lack of planning, lack of resources, or poor job performance by the military. It's coming from Fedayeen and Arab mercenary fighters that shoot at our soldiers and sabotage the electrical grid and water system.

In a town near Basrah, a couple of Arab fighters were caught by the locals and beaten to death. That news came to us via a crew that flew to Basrah a couple days after I flew to Kirkuk. The Brit army had to step in and disperse the mob. Most of the Iraqis hate these "Fedayeen" or "resistance" fighters, especially since many of them aren't even Iraqis.

Iraq is hardly another Vietnam. At the height of the Vietnam war, we were losing well over 500 soldiers a WEEK. We are far away from this conflict becoming another Vietnam.

But YOU won't hear news like that, because, as the press corps has said, bad news sells.

One thing I will tell you, and I urge you to think about this. While I was over there, I noticed that the other service personnel felt the same as I did....we felt very betrayed by the news media. Here we were, working our hardest to make Iraq a success, and CNN, NBC and the NY Times were doing their darndest to undo our work by making the average American feel we were failing.

Editorial writers, in their distaste for Bush, undermine the very troops they profess to "support" by painting Iraq as a failure. Molly Ivins should be ashamed to write such one-sided blatantly ignorant trash proclaiming that Iraq is a failure. Iraq is not a failure. It is an amazing success. It took 7 years before Germany could run on its own. Occupied Germany and Japan, months after the war ended, were both dangerous places, and we poured a huge sum of money in repairing both countries.

It's been about 5 months since the major battlefields of the Iraqi War went silent. Critics are clamoring "Iraq is no where near fixed!". To contrast....where was Japan in January of 1946? What about Germany in October of 1945? Where they repaired by then? Were they anywhere near close to being "on their feet"? No.

I'll close with some quotes from an email I got from my immediate supervisor. He's currently deployed on a non-flying staff job in Baghdad. His job is to give the Army ground leadership the Air Force perspective. Here is what he's got to say...NOTE: I edited out a few quotes that I felt either didn't have any use in portraying the mood over there, or they had operational security issues:

quote:

---

Actually there are positive things going on over here. CNN just fails to report them. Capturing bad guys weekly, I am working on getting 45,000 kids shirts shipped over here, and 4500 sets of kid's clothes shipped, giving a kid a hand full of candy will get a smile you couldn't buy anywhere. Some of the people I sent the WWW.BEANIESFORBAGHDAD.COM have actually sent pkgs over here.

---

quote:

---

I can understand Poles, Italians, Aussies, Brits, and Japs well enough to get over 50% of what is actually said. Never guessed I would be briefing and discussing issues with the brass like I have

---

quote:

---

The Iraqi people that I talk to over here are actually very glad we are here. Things are tough for them right now but they want us to tough it out until we get it right. Problems are similar to US, 10% of population making 90% of the noise and problems. Some very emotional stories to be told and have met some very interesting people from all walks of life and religions.

---

posted 09-27-2003 09:02 PM            

Just dont expect us to back a bull$#!+ war for profit for a tiny elite.

Many of US look at things very differently.

We know what the REAL deal is...and the TRUTH will be coming out for ALL to see VERY SHORTLY.

posted 09-27-2003 09:10 PM               

Motivations for this war aside, we fought a very real war, and there is a very real country that needs our help and support now. Failing to "back a bull**it war", yet a real war, will only result in 200+ servicemen killed for NOTHING.

posted 09-27-2003 09:14 PM            

The "jessica Lynch" story?

STAGED

written by Jerry Bruckheimer.

All scripted.

QUESTIONING A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT saves lives...not BLINDLY following them off the ends of the earth.

If ANYONE is getting those soldiers killed it's the BUSH ADMINISTATION...dont give me that blame crap!!!

posted 09-27-2003 09:28 PM            

THEY are the ones with blood on their hands. Not our soldiers, not the war opposers.

They are the ones who must be held accountable. Period.

posted 09-27-2003 09:36 PM            

If anything the mainstream media has been NOTHING BUT...PRO WAR..Rah rah..yeah Bush.."isnt he wonderful" Carrier landing BS.

The mainstream media can't be trusted and the LYNCH story was fabricated.

We are not being told the truth in Iraq as faar as I'm concerned...ESPECIALLY about the DANGEROUS levels of DEPLETED URANIUM everywhere endangering both the troops and Iraqis alike.

Lies...lies and more lies.

That is all this government knows how to do.

posted 09-27-2003 10:05 PM               

By the way, typically, in a DU round, less than 25% of the round is DU (which has a radioactivity level generally the same as natural uranium, found in the environment). The rest is some other alloy.

posted 09-27-2003 10:16 PM            

Again here with BushLaden Propaganda.

If I want to hear your line, I'll tune in Fox News.

Read Robert Fisk, an English journalist in the Middle East for nealy 40 years. Been everywhere in Iraq. He's been on the ground during the whole war from north to south, and what you say and what he says are completely opposite. Same with other foreign journalists.

I should believe you instead of him. You think chemtrails don't exist, Bush is the Greatest thing since toilet paper, DU is safe, and the US government is clean and wholesome.

You have to do better than that...

posted 09-27-2003 10:19 PM               

I have a couple photos of me climbing over some AAA guns that were knocked out by A-10s...probably "TONS" of DU on them.

posted 09-27-2003 10:24 PM            

You are defending genocide of our own troops by this government.

Make no mistake...the truth WILL come out. They have no where to hide.

posted 09-27-2003 10:26 PM            

Better use some lead lined condoms

half life of 4 billion years

Rand corporation conducted test to show it's safety, a Neo-Con think tank.

posted 09-27-2003 10:30 PM            

Of course...the VA motto is "GWS" is "ALL IN YOUR HEAD"...here soldier boy have some PROZAC.

posted 09-27-2003 10:35 PM               

quote:

---

Read Robert Fisk, an English journalist in the Middle East for nealy 40 years. Been everywhere in Iraq. He's been on the ground during the whole war from north to south, and what you say and what he says are completely opposite. Same with other foreign journalists.

---

Soooo, what you are saying is that I'm lying to myself? That I was just seeing a mirage out there? That the other troops I spent 2 months with were lying to me as well? And then after I go home, everyone breathes a sigh of relief, Iraq goes back to being a basketcase and the troops are free to tell Robert Fisk the truth?

quote:

---

I should believe you instead of him. You think chemtrails don't exist, Bush is the Greatest thing since toilet paper, DU is safe, and the US government is clean and wholesome.

---

Yes, I believe "chemtrails" don't exist, based upon 8 years of experience as an aviator and never having seen the elusive "chemtrail" or "chemplane".

I have NEVER said that Bush is the "greatest thing". I opposed his tax cuts. And I feel he could have handled the diplomacy side of Iraq better. He's not my favorite president. He may be a nice guy personally, but if there's a reasonable alternate for Prez in 2004, I'll give it strong consideration, even if it's (gulp) a Dem.

DU is not "safe". DU, while not extremely dangerous, isn't a material that I'd classify as safe. Car exhaust isn't safe. Burning trucks in Baghdad aren't safe (sooty petroleum products, composite materials, etc). To be honest, there's a bigger health risk involved when an airplane crashes due to composites, jet fuel and other compounds burning into the atmosphere than DU. But no, DU isn't a "safe" compound.

The US government suffers from a certain amount of beaurecratic bloat and corruption. But you also fail to acknowledge that there are laws, good people and other "checks and balances" to prevent our government from being this evil organization you claim it is.

Take the USAF for example. We've got our own internal power struggle between those who want to serve our country and those who want to serve themselves. I'll use a quote from a certain fighter pilot named Boyd to illustrate:

quote:

---

"Tiger, one day you will come to a fork in the road," he said. "And you're going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go." He raised his hand and pointed. "If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments." Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed another direction. "Or you can go that way and do something - something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won't have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference." He paused and stared into Leopold's eyes and heart. "To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That's when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?" (pp. 285-286).

---

John Boyd was a fighter pilot in the 1960s who fought the beauacracy and forced the Air Force to develop fighters like the F-15 and F-16, which are now second-to-none in the world.

"Boyd: The fighter pilot who changed the art of war" by Robert Coram

posted 09-27-2003 10:40 PM            

American government "checks and balances"...checked out a long time ago.

Our country is not our own anymore.
The globalists stole it a long time ago.

Where have you been? You know...WTO/NAFTA/GATT/ MAI/IMF/UN/WORLD BANK
CFR/ TC/PNAC

Bush's NEW WORLD ORDER?

Neither democrat or republican will fix this.
Are you getting it yet?

Only a return to what the founding fathers intended will fix this mess.

I want it back. Along with my beloved constitutional laws ENFORCED.

No damn NEW WORLD ORDER.

posted 09-27-2003 10:55 PM               

The military isn't deliberately trying to kill it's own.

Again, DU isn't something you want to ingest alot of. But in low levels it isn't any more harmful than breathing in auto exhaust.

There were people with respiratory problems over in Qatar...caused by simple dust. That's right...normal dust. The ground there is made up of limestone, and it turns to a very fine powdery dust. It can cause problems in people with weak lungs.

Mech, you're gonna die someday. And despite being told we'll die of "natural causes", most people die of environmentally-caused external factors, such as cancer. And if we all lived long enough, each of us would get cancer at some point. I personally had an elevated mercury level, which (I think) caused a very mild auto-immune reaction. Cause? Some of the chemicals used at a nearby plant used mercury oxides, and I breathed it everyday going to work.

Am I suing anyone? No. Because bad stuff surrounds us. I'm a geologist by education, and one thing I learned is that you can't escape the bad stuff. No it won't kill you tomorrow, but the long term exposure will. If you die at 70, you MIGHT be one of the lucky few who actually had an artery in your heart go, but most of us will have died due to carcingens building up from exposure to natural uranium, radon or barium. Or maybe natural exposure to cinnabar, a common mineral that contains mercury and often present in soil in certain areas (like southern Arkansas/n. Louisiana).

I guess my "big picture" point is that yes, soldiers will get ill. But their illnesses will come from a wide variety of things. Burning oil. Dust. DU. Burning chemicals. Burning composite materials. Simple exposure to common chemicals. The solvents used to clean guns contains chemicals that cause cancer and other problems if exposed enough.

Some people can go a lifetime being exposed to a compound and not be affected, others can be exposed to a very small amount and come down with ALS. Go take a class in hazardous waste management, Mech. I did (actually several classes in that). Be a little more educated than simply reading Rense and running around like Chicken Little.

That's the #1 reason why you're not taken seriously outside this board. You lack credentials. You lack an educated approach to debating these topics.

posted 09-27-2003 10:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PacerLJ35:
Soooo, what you are saying is that I'm lying to myself? That I was just seeing a mirage out there? That the other troops I spent 2 months with were lying to me as well? And then after I go home, everyone breathes a sigh of relief, Iraq goes back to being a basketcase and the troops are free to tell Robert Fisk the truth?

---

What I am saying is you are seeing what you are allowed and programmed to see. Fisk speaks 5 or 6 Arab laguages, and the Arab people love him. He can find out more than you, the troops, or the US media sees. As he said, he has been all over the country.

quote:

---

Yes, I believe "chemtrails" don't exist, based upon 8 years of experience as an aviator and never having seen the elusive "chemtrail" or "chemplane".

---

Again, you do not know every Air Force pilot, every NATO pilot, and every mission this country is involved in. I thought Julian Penrod countered you to s standstill.

quote:

---

I have NEVER said that Bush is the "greatest thing". I opposed his tax cuts. And I feel he could have handled the diplomacy side of Iraq better. He's not my favorite president. He may be a nice guy personally, but if there's a reasonable alternate for Prez in 2004, I'll give it strong consideration, even if it's (gulp) a Dem.

---

Well, , there's hope for you yet.

quote:

---

DU is not "safe". DU, while not extremely dangerous, isn't a material that I'd classify as safe. Car exhaust isn't safe. Burning trucks in Baghdad aren't safe (sooty petroleum products, composite materials, etc). To be honest, there's a bigger health risk involved when an airplane crashes due to composites, jet fuel and other compounds burning into the atmosphere than DU. But no, DU isn't a "safe" compound.

---

Michio Kaku, who built and atom smasher in high school and is now a reknowned physicist, says the oppsite. He and others feel it is the major cause of GWS.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/2001/01/19/2094.html

http://www.geocities.com/arcticreds/du.html

pacer, i don't think you are a rotten person. You honestly believe you are heliping people.

Some people see it differently, and see the slow progression of the Military-Industrial Complex, and Creeping Fascism.

We, the Libertarians, Socialists, Intelligent Conservatives, Constituitonalists, Liberals, Hippies, Cyberpunks, Artists, Beatniks, and Authors are here to prevent this society from becoming Fascistic.

posted 09-27-2003 11:02 PM            

Much as YOU would like try to stifle and trivialise those concerns.

As far as your elitist "uneducated" remarks...

Oh well..glad to make your day.

There are more "uneducated", concerned people out there than you think and we arent going away.

posted 09-27-2003 11:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PacerLJ35:

Mech, you're gonna die someday. And despite being told we'll die of "natural causes", most people die of environmentally-caused external factors, such as cancer. And if we all lived long enough, each of us would get cancer at some point. I personally had an elevated mercury level, which (I think) caused a very mild auto-immune reaction. Cause? Some of the chemicals used at a nearby plant used mercury oxides, and I breathed it everyday going to work.

---

So why don't we condone murderers, since everybody will die someday?

Mech and I are the people who help prevent society from becoming a juggarnaut of militarism. I totally respect his views.

if you had a serious illness like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, or the like, you'd wish you had your health back, and could reverse it. People that have their health can easily say such things, but trust me, you'd think differently with a deadly disease. Poor baby.... Mercury levels increased.....try chelation treatment.

the everybody gets cancer opinion is way off base.