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  U.S. Casualties from Iraq War Top 9,000

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Topic:   U.S. Casualties from Iraq War Top 9,000

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Ellyn
Senior Member


905 posts, Jul 2000

posted 11-17-2003 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ellyn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
U.S. casualties from Iraq war top 9,000
By Mark Benjamin
Published 11/14/2003 2:06 PM

http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=20031113-074311-4128r


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Bhang
New Member


Baumholder, Germany
27 posts, Jan 2003

posted 11-17-2003 07:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bhang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good info.
Makes me wonder what kind of nasties are actually down here. I'm currently writing from Baghdad and know of a few people who have left to illness. At least one was neurological. I wonder if the military is up to something - you know like testing viruses. It makes me a little afraid because I know that in two weeks we (soilders) are due for anthrax shots. I sure hope I don't get a bad batch. Is there a way to decline the shot and not be punished?

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
245 posts, Aug 2003

posted 11-17-2003 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bhang:
. . I'm currently writing from Baghdad . . .

Oh, Really, That is interesting to know. You say that you are a soldier. What is your unit? What do you do? Is your internet connection provided by the military?


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Molliani
Senior Member

Illinois
387 posts, Mar 2001

posted 11-17-2003 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Molliani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Bhang:

[ It makes me a little afraid because I know that in two weeks we (soilders) are due for anthrax shots. I sure hope I don't get a bad batch. Is there a way to decline the shot and not be punished?]

You seem to have too much time on your hands Bhang . . .
How many shots did you receive before you were shipped out?

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
245 posts, Aug 2003

posted 11-17-2003 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does your employer know what you are doing on the internet

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Deborah
Take It To The Limit


Flagstaff, AZ
640 posts, Jul 2000

posted 11-17-2003 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deborah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Ellyn.

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JerseyBluEyz
Trust the Universe


Northeast
173 posts, Jul 2003

posted 11-17-2003 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JerseyBluEyz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you kidding me here or what? If Bhang really is in Iraq (and I have no reason to doubt that he is not) you are going to sit here and QUESTION his being on-line? What if the guy is looking for a bit of sanity in the madness? He comes here and look and what he finds – how freakin’ nice! He is doing something NONE of us would “rather be doing”!!! You should be ashamed of yourselves! I am appalled!

Bhang: Thank you for serving this country – no matter what your capacity! There are many of us that do not agree with this alleged War Against Terrorism, but please know we stand behind our soldiers and want you home! Buddy - speak your mind and keep on posting! Besides, it’s our tax dollars paying for this mess and I say – SPEND IT getting some enjoyment out of your current life’s situation!!!

And yes, thank you Ellyn.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by JerseyBluEyz on 11-17-2003]

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JerseyBluEyz
Trust the Universe


Northeast
173 posts, Jul 2003

posted 11-17-2003 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JerseyBluEyz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bhang:
Is there a way to decline the shot and not be punished?

There is no way for us to answer that question - at least I can't anyway. I most definitely would NOT want to be shot with any government vaccines. You should ask around on your end. Aren't there people you can trust with that question?

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PacerLJ35
Senior Member

Millbrook, AL, USA
447 posts, Apr 2002

posted 11-17-2003 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PacerLJ35   Email PacerLJ35   Visit PacerLJ35's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

If Bhang really is in Iraq (and I have no reason to doubt that he is not) you are going to sit here and QUESTION his being on-line?

Interesting. I post an opposing viewpoint from the majority of those on this board, and I've been questioned on being a pilot, being in the military AND being in Iraq by the very same folks who state the above. What a bunch of pathetic one-sided fools.

Here's a few quotes after I stated I fly military aircraft and have been in Iraq:

Halva wrote:

quote:

(just in case Pacer actually is what he claims to be)

...and again...

quote:

let's look at how heavily he leans on the unveriable calim that he's a pilot and some kind of expert that we're all supposed to be intimidated by and defer to on the basis of this mythical qualification

...and again...

quote:

Pacer tries to wriggle out of this by giving a long, rambling and probably entirely ficticous account of something which he himself personally experienced

...and again...

quote:

Pacer depends entirely on the claim to be a pilot - which may or may not be true - and then pleads for blind trust on the basis of this unsubstantiated hearsay.

By the way, you won't take my word because it's pleading for "blind trust on the basis of this unsubstatiated hearsay", yet you'll believe the guy above without question...hmmmm.

...and Mech:

quote:

Pacers Lying...I live in Massachusetts and Hanscom AFB Certainly does have a runway

By the way, Hanscom AFB does not possess a runway...it's NEXT TO a civilian airport, which it does not own.

...next is Gerard:

quote:

assume that everything posted by Pacer is a deliberate lie

Another factoid: all military internet use is monitored, and I wasn't allowed to access sites like this while I was deployed to the ME. So I doubt you're friend above is actually in Bagdhad.

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
245 posts, Aug 2003

posted 11-17-2003 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
can one of the admins check his IP?

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JerseyBluEyz
Trust the Universe


Northeast
173 posts, Jul 2003

posted 11-17-2003 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JerseyBluEyz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PacerLJ35:

Interesting. I post an opposing viewpoint from the majority of those on this board, and I've been questioned on being a pilot, being in the military AND being in Iraq by the very same folks who state the above. What a bunch of pathetic one-sided fools.[B]

[B] Another factoid: all military internet use is monitored, and I wasn't allowed to access sites like this while I was deployed to the ME. So I doubt you're friend above is actually in Bagdhad.


First, I have never questioned your being a Pilot nor have I ever voiced an opinion one way or another. On what grounds do you lump me into the disbelieving Pacer's a pilot category? Is it because I believe in an NWO Agenda? Are you saying you're a part of that agenda so I automatically disbelieve in you?

Second I know of a few soldiers in Iraq and Kuwait that have had access to computers on and off (over the past 2 years). Sorry to tell YOU, but it is possible he’s on a computer overseas depending on what service he's in and where his station is.

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Molliani
Senior Member

Illinois
387 posts, Mar 2001

posted 11-18-2003 01:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Molliani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PacerLJ35:

[Another factoid: all military internet use is monitored, and I wasn't allowed to access sites like this while I was deployed to the ME. So I doubt you're friend above is actually in Bagdhad.]

I have to agree with Pacer. I so strongly believe that Bhang is an imposter and a discredit and dishonor to the very subject and intent of this topic. Thanks Ellyn!

Originally posted by Ellyn:

U.S. casualties from Iraq war top 9,000
By Mark Benjamin
Published 11/14/2003 2:06 PM
http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=20031113-074311-4128r



[Edited 1 times, lastly by Molliani on 11-18-2003]

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Mech
Resisting the NWO


Northeast USA
4580 posts, Sep 2002

posted 11-18-2003 07:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It won't be long now.

The Bush admin has pretty much dug is own proverbial grave.

I have a feeling the mainstream media is about to turn on them.

Stay tuned

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PacerLJ35
Senior Member

Millbrook, AL, USA
447 posts, Apr 2002

posted 11-18-2003 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PacerLJ35   Email PacerLJ35   Visit PacerLJ35's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jersey:

I'm very aware that military perosonnel overseas have access to computers and (gasp!) the internet. I was one of those folks myself from June through August of this year. I used e-mail to communicate with my wife since there was no limit versus the once-a-week phone call I got.

HOWEVER, the military does monitor and filter internet use. A female pilot we flew with couldn't even order a swimsuit online because it was filtered under "porographic material"....not that they were afraid of US looking at swimsuit models, but our host country would take offense.

Anyhow, web sites that are heavily political in nature (including this one) would set off flags if it weren't filtered out all together.

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
651 posts, Dec 2002

posted 11-19-2003 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To me the question of whether Bhang is genuinely in Iraq or not is not the primary question. What I note is Pacer, Molliani's and Wolf's attitude to him and what they think is important and unimportant.

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
651 posts, Dec 2002

posted 11-19-2003 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Their indifference to the question of the anthrax shots makes a particular impression on me.

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
651 posts, Dec 2002

posted 11-19-2003 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I cannot imagine ANY Greek being so indifferent to the fate of a Greek soldier, or even of a person falsely claiming to be a Greek soldier.

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JerseyBluEyz
Trust the Universe


Northeast
173 posts, Jul 2003

posted 11-19-2003 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JerseyBluEyz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by halva:
I cannot imagine ANY Greek being so indifferent to the fate of a Greek soldier, or even of a person falsely claiming to be a Greek soldier.

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Bobben Sun
New Member


Calgary, Canada
6 posts, Nov 2003

posted 11-19-2003 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobben Sun   Email Bobben Sun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Thank you every one for keeping in mind we are all in the same boat ... ( gasp ! )

Remeber this ( all you U.S.A. guys should know this ) ...

" UNITED WE STAND ... DIVIDED WE FALL "

HAVE A GOOD DAY ANYWAY !
(Pardon me for being nosy but .......... )

------------------
Keep the planet free ...

PEACE !

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
245 posts, Aug 2003

posted 11-19-2003 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by halva:
Their indifference to the question of the anthrax shots makes a particular impression on me.


Halva your continued attempts to dictate what is an acceptable viewpoint make little impression on me.

If he is in the army any he is ordered to get a vaccine to protect him against a potential threat, then he has to do it or potentially face a Court Marshal.

If he was in combat and he was ordered to wear his combat helmet and refused, he would be subject to the same punitive actions.

I’ll admit that there are concerns about the vaccine, but, if we didn’t vaccinate and hundreds or even thousands of U.S. Soldiers died from a biological attack, then how loud would you be screaming that the Army should have protected our soldiers?

Furthermore, the question of whether or not Bhang is really a soldier stationed in Iraq is indeed a valid one, In fact, in my mind, it is considerably more important that the anthrax vaccine issue.

If he is who he says he is, and if someone either directly or indirectly encourages him to violate a direct order from his superiors, there could be serious consequences.

On the other hand, if he is a fake, then there are other legal and ethical issues at stake here. At the least, if that is true, he would be a harmless and garden variety internet troll (and therefore eligible for expulsion under the forum rules.)


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PacerLJ35
Senior Member

Millbrook, AL, USA
447 posts, Apr 2002

posted 11-19-2003 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PacerLJ35   Email PacerLJ35   Visit PacerLJ35's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indifference to the anthrax shot? To me, the anthrax issue is a non-issue. I've been immunized with Anthrax. So have thousands of other military personnel. Why should I be "concerned" about him receiving an Anthrax shot when I've already received all the doses myself? And suffered ZERO medical side effects or adverse problems? Hell, a flu shot at least makes me feel a bit sick...but the Anthrax shots only put a knot in my arm for a couple days...but not as worse as a Typhoid shot...boy, those will put a lump in your arm for a week.

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
245 posts, Aug 2003

posted 11-19-2003 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Besides, it is the small pox vaccine that has everyone complaining, not anthrax

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Molliani
Senior Member

Illinois
387 posts, Mar 2001

posted 11-20-2003 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Molliani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE] Originally posted by halva:

[I cannot imagine ANY Greek being so indifferent to the fate of a Greek soldier,
or even of a person falsely claiming to be a Greek soldier.]

Falsely claiming to be a Greek soldier?
Would your court system condone this practice?

I'm not indifferent to anyone facing todays forced vaccinations. How did you come to that conclusion Halva? I've provided a couple of links and articles that may interest Bhang.

Posted on Wed, Nov. 19, 2003

Wisconsin soldier's death may be linked to vaccines

BY DONALD G. MCNEIL JR.
New York Times

A 22-year-old Army reservist who died in April may have succumbed to a combination of vaccinations, including those for smallpox and anthrax, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

But the doctor who oversees the armed forces' smallpox vaccination program called the death of Spc. Rachel Lacy "a rare and tragic case," and said the military's vaccination policies would not be changed.

Lacy, a reservist at Fort McCoy, Wis., died of "a complicated illness, diagnosed as "like lupus,' " said the doctor, Col. John D. Grabenstein of the Army Surgeon General's office.

A month earlier, she had received five shots to protect her against smallpox, anthrax, hepatitis B, typhoid, measles, mumps and rubella. Receiving that many shots at once is not unusual, Grabenstein said.

"Infants can get five in one day," he said. "It's considered safe practice." Lacy had no skin problems or immune system problems that would have excluded her from smallpox vaccine, he added.

She later fell sick with aches and fever resembling the cold that other members of her unit had. When the symptoms worsened, they resembled lupus, in which the body's own immune system attacks it. She later died from bleeding in her lungs.

The Army said two civilian medical panels that looked into the case agreed that her death was either "probably" or "possibly" an adverse reaction to vaccines.
--------------------------------------------------

Gulf War Chemicals Linked to Testicular Damage

Reduced sperm production in veterans cited in Duke study

By Gary Gately
HealthDayNews Reporter

TUESDAY, Jan. 14 (HealthDayNews)
A combination of three chemicals given
to Gulf War troops to protect against diseases and nerve gas may have damaged the soldiers' testes and reduced their sperm production.

That's the contention of a new Duke University study, published in the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, that showed the chemicals caused extensive cell degeneration and cell death in the testes of laboratory rats.

Rats given the chemicals and exposed
to stressful situations suffered more extensive damage. This suggests that
the chemicals, combined with the moderate stress likely experienced by some soldiers during the 1991 Gulf War, caused the most severe deterioration in testicular structure and sperm production, says Mohamed B. Abou-Donia, a Duke pharmacologist and the study's lead researcher.

The findings could provide clues about why some veterans of the Persian Gulf War have suffered from infertility and sexual dysfunction, Abou-Donia says.

Researchers gave lab rats the insect repellant DEET, the insecticide permethrin and the anti-nerve gas agent pyridostigmine bromide in doses designed to mimic the human equivalent of what the soldiers received.

The rats showed no outward signs of ailments, Abou-Donia says, but under a microscope, the testicular damage could clearly be seen. As a result, he suggests, cases of testicle damage among
soldiers could have been overlooked.

"In the real-life situation, veterans came back and looked normal, and the only
way doctors could tell damage was to look at the testes," Abou-Donia says.
"So they ended up saying it [concern about infertility] was all in the veterans' heads, only their imaginations."

Earlier studies found much higher doses of each of the three chemicals given separately proved almost harmless, Abou-Donia says. Combining two of
them was more toxic, and the three together, the most toxic, he says.

However, Abou-Donia adds the results
of the latest research, which examined the rats immediately after giving them
the chemicals and subjecting them to stress, doesn't answer whether the damage is reversible. Further study would be needed to determine the possibility of recovery, he says.

In the study, financed by the U.S. Department of Defense, the researchers found the most pervasive cell damage within basal germ cells and spermatocytes, which develop into mature sperm. The three chemicals combined with stress caused these cells to detach from one another, slough off and develop holes known as "vacuoles," part of the process that leads to cell death. And the more cells that die, the more sperm production is reduced, Abou-Donia says.

Similar cell degeneration occurred in the seminiferous tubules, where developing sperm are produced, and in Sertoli cells that support and nurture the developing germ cells, Abou-Donia says.

The study showed the chemicals and stress interrupted most of the stages of sperm development and eliminated some altogether.

Steve Robinson, a Gulf War veteran who is now executive director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, an information clearinghouse, says the study's findings come as no surprise.

"Although this particular study is unfortunate news, it's confirmatory news," Robinson says. "It will at least close the door so [veterans] know the reason."

Robinson, who researched Gulf War-related illnesses for the Defense Department until 2001, says he hears regularly from Gulf War veterans concerned about infertility.

"It's been on veterans' minds," he says. "The evidence is mounting that exposure from the Gulf War is the reason why veterans are sick, and veterans have been saying this all along. But science is just now catching up."

As the United States prepares for a potential second round of war in Iraq, Robinson says the study demonstrates the need for caution in giving soldiers chemicals.

"I think what it says is number one, we have to be extremely concerned about
the use of investigational new drugs and vaccines in combination with pesticides used in military applications during war," Robinson says.

Links For Bhang:

The National Gulf War Resource Center http://www.ngwrc.org/

Anthrax Vaccine Network http://www.ngwrc.org/anthrax/default.asp


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