posted 11-21-2003 06:38 PM            

THE MILITARY MERGING WITH POLICE AGAINST YOU.

GLOBALIZATION OVER YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL SOVEREIGNTY.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

SUCK YOUR THUMB AND WATCH FOX?

posted 11-21-2003 11:24 PM            

What do YOU define as "Civil disobedience"?

You like Military APCs patroling your streets?

YEAH...you'll have the "Last Laugh" alright when they bust down YOUR door.

But oh no....."Its just for those icky protesters"

You better WAKE UP.

Want to know what they have planned for you?

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-19.40/toc.htm

posted 11-21-2003 11:57 PM            

An unaccountable branch of world government that NUKES our democratically enacted sovereign laws to favor global corporations.

They have EVERY reason to be there voicing their disgust.

posted 11-22-2003 12:33 AM            

Be sure to watch some of the video clips, in particular the one called Police Fire Gas into Crowd, Protesters Throw Canisters Back. This shows the police beating THE HELL out of some protestors after things got a bit rowdy.

Here is what has some folks all excited:

The protestor’s link: http://www.stopftaa.org/

Top 10 Reasons to Oppose the FTAA (with good cause!): http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/topten.html

FTAA Official Website: http://www.ftaa-alca.org/alca_e.asp

posted 11-22-2003 12:47 PM            

quote:

---

"A major demonstration scheduled for midday fizzled and only a few dozen protesters participated in other actions. Law enforcement actions diminished throughout the city, with far fewer police in evidence. . .

"Several protest groups had planned additional demonstrations today, but the main event -- a march scheduled to begin at 10 a.m. from the Miami Arena -- evaporated.

Five thousand people had been expected; only three showed up, and they were outnumbered by reporters and photographers.

''This is ridiculous,'' said Rob Ward, 21, who joined two friends in the six-hour drive from Gainesville -- only to find the demonstration canceled on account of no demonstrators.

---

posted 11-22-2003 04:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolf_Larson:
What if you throw a protest and no one comes?

---

???

It means you throw a protest and no one comes.

What's your point??

posted 11-22-2003 04:32 PM            

The FTAA was set up to destroy working Americans wages to have them compete on a global scale for a decreasing quality of life while putting that money in the hands of an unaccountable TYRANNY.

But that's fine with Wolfie.

posted 11-22-2003 06:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JerseyBluEyz:
???

It means you throw a protest and no one comes.

What's your point??

Do you think it's possible that the scare tactics used might have worked to turn people away???

---

"scare tactics used might have worked" Not hardly, the people that get into this kind of thing love the attention.

Maybe they weren’t getting paid enough?

quote:

---

Many of the young activists at the FTAA were sponsored to attend the event, either by busy professionals or by labor unions who bused in students from around the country.

''This is part of the bigger phenomenon of the professionalizing of protest movements,'' said Todd Gitlin, who recently published Letters to a Young Activist and has taught courses on activism at Yale and Columbia Universities. ``Just like the science of direct mail, for-pay recruiters and fundraisers, you have a division of labor between those with money and those with time.''

---

posted 11-22-2003 06:30 PM            

It hasn't been Capitalism for a long time.

It's called FUEDALISM.

Or what I like to call...Crony Capitalism

The system is 100% flawed and getting worse.

posted 11-22-2003 10:41 PM            

Capitalism? I hope you were kidding. Did you read the whole article?

Quote from article: “We are social workers, teachers and students and don't have a lot of money,'' said Paul Bame, an organizer for UpRoot in Fort Collins, Texas. It takes about 10 activists raising money at home to sponsor one at the FTAA. We had five fundraisers, teach-ins, parties, concerts and raised $2,000 . . . for 20 people.''

We SHOULD put our younger generation into a pro active mode. Everyone is too complacent these days and with each passing generation it gets worse! Our fearless leaders do not even allow the governmental monitoring committees into bill passage meetings. Are we supposed to just sit back and watch things happen – not do anything? Who cares how SOME of the crowds got there?

If you watched some of those video clips you would have seen that MANY of the protestors from earlier in the week WANTED to be there - they wanted to be heard. Are you like most people that believe everything they see on TV or read in the paper? Whatever happened to using the gift of discernment? Everyone should learn to dig a little bit deeper than just believing what is placed right under their nose. Look for the truth - it shall set you free!

Our younger generations are being conditioned to NOT question the system - period! Their lack of knowledge in all walks of life is mind blowing. It’s a perfect way to control the masses. The less they are educated, the less they will question. The less they question, the more they behave like good little sheeple. Do not even try to tell me that the American educational system is close to being what it was even 25 years ago. It is deteriorating just like the economic system of this country. Did you know that most college students do not even know what their Constitutional rights are? Listen to this:

**********

More than two-thirds of college students and administrators who participated in a national survey were unable to remember that freedom of religion and the press are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

In surveys conducted at 339 U.S. colleges and universities, more than one-fourth of students and administrators did not list freedom of speech as an essential right protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution.

More than three-fourths did not name freedom of assembly and association or the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

"If one thinks of the First Amendment as a foundational American liberty, the ignorance and misunderstanding of it by administrators at our nation's colleges and universities is frightening, and the general ignorance and misunderstanding of it by students is quite depressing," said Alan Charles Kors, president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) in Philadelphia, which commissioned the surveys.

**********

posted 11-23-2003 11:19 AM            

Perhaos it would serve you better to get out and do speeches instead of sit behind that keyboard?

posted 11-23-2003 11:34 AM            

HATCHET: ".....youll just be considered another paranoid delusional internet forum flamer that never had the decency to use his common sense."

You better be sure. I SEE ALL THE EVIDENCE.

***

The Fear Americans NEED is Fear of U.S. Government Totalitarianism
by Stan Moore
(Sunday 23 November 2003)

"...terrorism at its basic root is a struggle for world resources between the world-wide multinational corporate elite and those who are harmed by the concentration of wealth and power by the corporate elite."

The signs are clear and they are all around us. Miami cops are shooting citizens on the street who dare voice their protestations to policies benefiting corporations and harming U.S. citizens. John Ashcroft is rolling back constitutional protections in order to "protect" U.S. citizens from "terrorism". General Tommy Franks just stated publicly that one single successful attack using weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. could result in abandonment of the U.S. constitution and installation of a military state in the U.S. itself.

Consider some pertinent facts: ALL terrorism at its basic root is a struggle for world resources between the world-wide multinational corporate elite and those who are harmed by the concentration of wealth and power by the corporate elite. The fact is that that same corporate elite sees very clearly that the day is coming when their wealth and power grabbing will place them at direct odds with the American public. Earth's resources are finite, and the power elite want infinite control over the liquidation and exploitation of the increasingly scarce resources that provide them with wealth and power. The day is inevitable when the typical U.S. citizen will understand that his/her prospect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is controlled, and then thwarted by the ruling elite. By then, it may be too late, because freedom will be a thing of the past. We may very well see a totalitarian state in America, with the U.S. military and police forces spying on American citizens, using lethal violence against them, and brutally crushing opposition to government policies just like Saddam Hussein, Josef Stalin, the Shah of Iran, and other dictators have done.

There will be a day when the Miami police department will use lethal force against protestors. There may be a day when martial law will be declared and the U.S. military will be called to intimidate, and then kill American citizens at the behest and bequest of the American government. The path to that end is very clear even today.

A famous American patriot once said: "Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security will end up with neither." Americans have been manipulated by fear to voluntarily give up precious freedoms. But the fears used to justify these deprivations have been based on incomplete information, grounded in lies. The U.S. government clearly knew that the September 11, 2001 attacks were being planned and could have stopped the attacks or prevented them altogether. But clearly, the U.S. administration wanted a "Pearl Harbor-type attack" to use for its own political purposes. We now know that even the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941 was fully known in advance to the U.S. government, which was secretly monitoring even the most secret Japanese communications between Japanese warships, military, and government. The U.S. knew all the details of the Pearl Harbor attack, and indeed goaded the Japanese into making the attack in order to provoke the U.S. into a war that the U.S. government leadership wanted but which the U.S. public had resisted.

Clearly, the U.S. government allowed 9/11 to occur in order to provide public support for a "war on terrorism", and then exploited the attacks with a whole series of lies, misinformation, dis-information, and deceit in order to prosecute a hidden agenda. That hidden agenda is clearly against the interests of the American people, and against democracy and freedom for Americans and for Iraqis and for all people.

And the American people are so fearful, so panicky, so dumbed down, so caught up in the web created for them by their own materialistic desires and lifestyles that the web is continually being drawn tighter and tighter.

It is particularly sad and disgusting that the very liars who speak continually of freedom and democracy are the ones who are trying to suppress it and strip it away from the American people, even as they have already stripped freedom from the Iraqi people. The Iraqis have had a "democracy" installed for their benefit. They did not even get to participate in their own democracy -- even to the point that expatriate Iraqis with no connection to the nation itself are now helping to rule the nation. It is just a matter of time before America has democracy installed with no meaningful participation by the American people. The pseudo-election of George W. Bush is proof that this can happen, even in America. The fragility of American democracy is evidenced that Al Gore would not even protest the stealing of the election at the time; he participated in the precedent-setting distortion of American democracy.

America' troubles in this world are just beginning. Freedom-loving peoples around the world now see the U.S. as their biggest threat. More and more Americans are waking up to see their biggest threat is not outside America's borders, but within the boards of directors of our corporations and within the halls of government; there is an incestuous relationship between these two classes that is strangling democracy and will one day pose a direct threat to American freedoms in a way that Osama bin Laden plus Saddam Hussein plus any terrorist organization in the history of the world could never do, even if they did obtain weapons of mass destruction. Americans have weapons of mass destruction and have used them. America has massive numbers of weapons of less destruction and have used them in massive amounts, and Japan and Iraq and Afghanistan still exist. Yet, the fear of weapons of mass destruction is putting a highly leveraged risk against American democracy by the American government itself.

We know who the TRUE threats are!

posted 11-23-2003 01:33 PM            

The murder of democracy

By Meria Heller
Online Journal Contributing Writer

November 22, 2003—Here it is the eve of the end of our democracy by a corrupt, the CIA. The CIA blackmailed the head of the FBI in order to pull off the biggest murder case in our history—the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

What kind of America do we have now? The latest reports out of Miami on the protesters at the FTAA (selling out of our constitution in favor of the American Union slated for January 2005) show police brutality out of control for people exercising their rights under the First Amendment.

Rubber bullets, plastic bullets, chemical laden bullets, hoses, batons, head injuries, blockades, reporters being arrested . . . all by the American police. Other American citizens doing the work of the One World Order globalists—"following orders."

How much courage does it take to pull a trigger on someone's mother, father or child? How much courage does it take to fire on a fellow citizen? For what? A paycheck? What will they do when their paychecks are taken from them in a bankrupt country? What will they do when they need to face up to their crimes against freedom? Will they have the courage of those protesters? I doubt it. Will they have the courage of the young woman I saw running down the street with blood pouring from her head from one of their rubber bullets?

I doubt it.

When people blindly follow orders it's called fascism and mind-control. It doesn't take courage. It takes a certain breed of ignorance, arrogance and insanity.

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy, Inaugural Address, 1961

What are those "following orders" doing for their country? Aiding and abetting the same international banksters that have robbed our treasury, our rights and our very freedoms? For what? A paycheck? Some testosterone rush? Some mental problem or lack in their childhood needs?

The money will run out. Our dollar falls as every bullet is fired; every war is fought.

Our goodwill amongst other nations is gone. We have become a nation of hateful, hated war-mongers. How long before the last remnant of what once was called "America" is gone?

Our vote has been negated. Our entire voting system is a joke. It's all a fix like the old Friday Night At The Fights. Our choices have been two sides of the same coin forever. Do you think there will even be a faux election in 2004? After 2005, they won't even have to bother with that entire sham.

I forget which president said "I fear for my country." When I see the photos of the protesters being beaten by an overzealous, misguided SS of our own, I fear for my country. When I see the invisible (and not so invisible) hands of the globalists washing over our constitution and bill of rights, I fear for my country.

But, remember, it's always darkest before the dawn. A new dawn is coming in America. It comes on the backs and hearts of protesters, authors, journalists, grandmas, grandpas, teens and little kids. It is called "righteous Indignation." The righteous have risen. They are coming out of the matrix and standing tall. For every protester that gets knocked down, 10 will take their place. As more and more people worldwide recognize that there are more of us than there are of them, more will stand.

The globalists won't succeed because of the poor people. They created them, but didn't anticipate that those with nothing to lose, have everything to gain. They are gaining: in strength, in numbers and in education.

The corporate whores and their compliant media know their day is coming. The day of reckoning. It won't be put off much longer. Daylight is about to shine. Every evil deed will be exposed. Every false promise exposed. Every false "hero" exposed. There will be no hiding place deep or hidden enough for them to escape. Their destiny is arriving to meet them for a pre-arranged date they didn't plan on.

That date is "freedom now." Freedom for all living things all over the planet. Freedom from rules, governments, religions, hatreds, doctrines, debt and the rest. Once the mind gets free, the rest is easy.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Fear nothing. They can kill the body, but never the soul. Those without souls have ruled long enough. Free your mind, expand, get active, spread the word and stand.

Whatever you do, support those who support the truth and stop supporting those who don't.

My mother used to say, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall". I say, "Fall they will".

Pray for those who are suffering worldwide. Pray for those brave enough to be on the front lines. Pray to free your mind and your soul will follow. These systems of control have had their day and it's time they are put to pasture once and for all. Reject their doctrines; think for yourself.

This Earth is a beautiful place with enough bounty for all of us worldwide to have all our needs met. We need to realize that "we the people" must create the new world we seek. Start local, think global.

Freedom cannot exist anywhere in the world, unless it exists everywhere in the world.

"Freedom Day" has arrived—will you be there?

I will. Until my last gasp.

posted 11-23-2003 05:22 PM            

It's interesting to note that one news clip I saw showed a bunch of ski-masked fellows running around with hammmers, crow bars and other "weapons", with the idea of destroying shops, vehicles and other private property supposedly in "protest", and they were quoted as saying "we're living in a police state!".

Now, the cops might have been rough with the protesters, but last I checked the cops weren't the one destroying innocent people's private property and threatening bystanders with violence, all the while cowardly hiding behind a ski-mask....and doing this simply because they disagree politically with the WTF/FTAA programs.

Those radical protesters are the ones acting like "goon patrols", not the cops. In fact, I fear the day when and if those type of folks get control of our government, because they are so self-righteous, they'll trample your right to voice your objections because you're "wrong" and they are "right", therefore if you're "wrong", you're an enemy to "freedom" and must be removed.

Witness folks that are moderators on this board, for example. I've been personally attacked in posts in the past, yet no one stood up and corrected them. Yet if I simply disagree and tell someone that an idea of their's is a bit crazy, I get post after post accusing me of personal insults.

Not that I ever expect any of you to understand that, seeing that those who form the bedrock of this board are so channelized on one thing.

Also, the premise of this thread is that the military will move against the people of the nation. To insist this, you have to also take the view that everyone in the 1 million + person military won't raise a finger when it comes to arresting and detaining their family, friends and neighbors. I've been in the military for 12 years, and I've yet to remotely see any policy, training practice or other direction indicating that we're on the cusp of detaining our fellow Americans (indeed, our own families) and falling into a "police state".

When I was enlisted in the Army 8 years ago, we did train for "crowd control", but it was always in the context of public safety and preventing riots and violent crowds, not preventing peaceful public demonstration. In fact, each year we'd spend a couple days going over the training, and it was always preceeded by a long lecture on the legal aspects of using force and detaining people. In other words, you have to have cause.

IF a "police state" was where our nation was headed to, I'd expect to find the direction of crowd control training to lean more in the direction of stifling any protest, peaceful or not. But that just wasn't the case.

posted 11-23-2003 05:59 PM            

You better be sure. I SEE ALL THE EVIDENCE.

posted 11-23-2003 06:12 PM            

Hear the "sounds of silence?"

HatchettML may be trying to give you a warning.

A relative of mine, a bookkeeper, stole from the LA mob.

He was found dead in New Mexico, from heart failure.
He had a bullet hole in his head and one hand cut off.

Many of those who died in Hitler's camps were pronounced dead of "heart failure'
Whether brought on by guard dogs, bootheels of guards, torture, of a gunshot;
The cause of death,
was officially recorded as "heart failure"

Get the point?

(Bush and his minions are following Hitler's model faithfully)

The rightwingers have neither morals nor laws to restrain them.
They openly admitted to felonies in court, about fixing the 2000 election and not one of them ever got charged or prosecuted,

They know they have successfully murdered Presidents, Senators and citizens, and you or me would be just another addition to the lengthy Bush Body Count.

Be careful Mech.
Be armed and remember:
"You aren't paranoid, if they really are out to get you!"

The amerikan police state became our nightmare reality in December of 2000, when they took away our right to have our votes actually counted;
and we failed to riot in the streets...

"...and the people bowed and prayed to the neon gods they made..."

posted 11-23-2003 06:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
quote

You better be sure. I SEE ALL THE EVIDENCE.

Sure lets see you prove it without cut and pasting from a liberal website.

---

Problem there prof;
is that by 'conservatives' definition' any website that does not have it's lips superglued permanently to Bush's ass;
is (by your definition) a "liberal website"

Now way to prove any fact by quoting a rightwing website.
The cult only believes the cult, only quotes the cult, only obeys the cult leaders,
shuts down their minds when anything not fron cult leaders is presented.

How Professor,
to discourse with a cult member?

If you only listen to voices from within your own cult...
how to attempt communication?

Truth is non-partisan.

Source does not matter, if the messenger speaks the truth...

That, unique to conservatives; "kill the messenger' attack on truth is irrelevant to actual facts.

Only fellow cult members are fooled.

propagand is eventually unravelled by it's own fabric of lies becoming unravelled.
eg: the bogus justification for the bushwar occupation of Iraq
has exposed the Bush administration for pathalogical liars.
eg;
"...I will not use our nation's military for nation building..." GW Bush (while campaigning)

Conservatives.
when you are in a hole.
quit digging deeper/ it just makes the depth of your situation worse.

posted 11-23-2003 07:09 PM            

"Source does not matter, if the messenger speaks the truth...

Well stated!

Certain people will NEVER see beyond a PHONY Left/Right paradigm set up INTENTIONALLY divide and keep the ILLUSION in place.

BUT...democrats/liberals can be just as hypocritical.

Any way you slice it......there will always be CHARLATANS who stump for the FED even when they do WRONG.

By the way Pacer. Those so-called "Anrachists" at Seattle were USEFUL IDIOTS, PROVOCATUERS.....USED....SERVICES RENDERED. They were actually left-coast communists. The city actually HOUSED those people in a downtown building RENT FREE during the entire WTO protest. It was ON THE NEWS.

posted 11-23-2003 07:32 PM            

I don't buy the "Violent Anarchist" STORY for ones second. IF ANYTHING it was federal agents POSING for the camera to justify VIOLENCE on the people in Miami. Its called
AGENT PROVACATUER.

Hmmmm...Military APCs, Concussion Grenades, Rubber bullets, Plastic Bullets, tear gas,
cattleprods, stun guns, batons and night sticks. Must be that FREE SPEECH and RIGHT TO PROTEST that is being SQUASHED by Bush's new HOMELAND...

...all to protect ELITISTS who are more than happy to move our industrial and high technology base to the third world..and have the GALL to call it "FREE TRADE".

Is that what YOU are defending Pacer? Is THAT what you want?

No?

Then stop bitching about others protesting it.

In fact...get off your @$$ and make some noise about it.

posted 11-23-2003 09:36 PM            

For anyone interested, Yahoo has a slide show of the FTAA Protest here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s&u=/static/slideshow_archive2&ga=ts