posted 12-24-2003 11:39 PM               

quote:

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Cluster-bombing children for oil and Empire is wrong.

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posted 12-24-2003 11:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PacerLJ35:
So are you saying that US military pilots target children with cluster munitions to grab oil?

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Nope. I'm saying that children are dying from cluster bombs as a result of the current U.S. drive for oil and empire.

posted 12-26-2003 12:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by swamp gas:
Blackmagikman,

carrying War and Peace around in your brain at the same time. Must be tough being inside your head, simce War and Peace cannot exist in the same space/time continuum.

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He is (IMHO) just being one of the Party Faithful.

From 'the handbook of the Bush Administration':

(chapter 3) And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed -if all records told the same tale -- then the lie passed into history and became truth.

Neo-cons' handbook (online): http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

His mind slid away into the labyrinthine world of doublethink.

To know and not to know,
to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies,

to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out,
knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them,

to use logic against logic,

to repudiate morality while laying claim to it,

to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy,

to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again:
and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.
Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.

doublethink Newtspeak online: http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/TalkingPoints/default.htm

posted 12-26-2003 01:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Show-Me Truth:
I noticed there was resounding silence from others here, to my post regarding the implementation of the Bush/Cheney "New American Century". It is quite simply a plan for U.S. domination of the world. Nothing less. I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting this.

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It's not that people have such a hard time accepting it. It's that many of us have read the documents produced by PNAC and don't see it is as the evil conspiracy that conspiracists see.

posted 12-26-2003 02:26 PM            

It continues:
Now
those same conspiracists claimed the anti-war rallies were a commie conspiracy, for example.
Those same conspiracists saw 9/11 as an evil and sinister plot by a supposed Arab Muslim conspiracy, with not one shred of believable evidence*
Yet had only their own rampant paranoia and
unsubstantuated propaganda as basis.

*'Indestructable passports' and 'hard drinking Muslims at a nudie bar' fantasies dismissed as obvious lies.

Yup!
These conspiracists are out of contact with reality.

Alternate and more cogent question:
How can any rational person propose and answer to:

How to be ProWar and not a moron.

posted 12-26-2003 05:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shatoga:
Agreed. I noticed during the Clinton Administration that conspiracists saw everything as an evil and sinister plot.

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I don't recall that, except for that Vincent guy--can't remember his name, the White House counsel that was either mysteriously killed or committed suicide. That's the only conspiracy theory I remember from the Clinton administration, but I admit I didn't follow them closely. I figured most of the events during the Clinton administration could be blamed on stupidity more than anything else. Arguably, the same remains true today.

quote:

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Now those same conspiracists claimed the anti-war rallies were a commie onspiracy, for example.

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I hadn't even seen that. That they were a bunch of peaceniks without a cause I'll concede and even go so far as to say that I agree with that. But I hadn't heard anyone suggesting they were a bunch of communists.

quote:

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Those same conspiracists saw 9/11 as an evil and sinister plot by a supposed Arab Muslim conspiracy, with not one shred of believable evidence

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The evidence seems pretty clear even without your supposed indistructable passport and fantasies about Muslims visiting nudie bars.

If it wasn't Arabs that hijacked the planes, who do you think it was? To what end? I've read the conspiracies, obviously, but I'd be interested in hearing which one of them you subscribe to and debate that.

quote:

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These conspiracists are out of contact with reality.

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posted 12-26-2003 10:03 PM            

2 His body was moved to another location because of the lack of blood found where supposedly he was shot.

3 The gun they found on him wasn't his gun (proclaimed by his wife)

posted 12-27-2003 09:58 PM            

I think in all probability Foster was indeed murdered. The anomalies you mention as well as many many others are outlined well in among other books, the one by Ambrose Evans Pritchard a British Journalist I believe who wrote "The Secret Life (or lives) of Bill Clinton. A great book I read years ago that shed great light on the "Dixie Mafia" and the (alleged) drug running by the CIA and numerous politicians. Quite a few eneded up dead, many others in prison during the days of Mena Arkansas drug running. Interestingly, the book portrayed the drug operation as completely bi-partisan with shipments to both Clintons folks and Jeb Bush's folks among others. Anyone who still hasn't caught on to this swindle and still wishes their tax dollars to be used for "crimes" which our own "agencies" appear to encourage along might want to read Pritchards account. It is just one however of many. I think Hollywood even did a movie about the CIA drug running days but I can't recall the name right off, maybe someone here has seen it.

People IMO should remember "conspiracies" really are a dime a dozen. People get together and plan things such as crime ALL the time. In fact most people have little problem believing OTHER governments plot conspiracies all the time. In fact even some honest students of history will admit our own history is full of government conspiracies but they will most always claim it was "in the past". Ok maybe they will say, sure there was Watergate, and ok maybe Iran Contra, and alright maybe Powers was spying over the Soviet Union when he was shot down(remember that?),et.cetc. but those kind of things don't happen NOW!! they will claim.

Well in fact history shows ALL governments act criminally, they lie CONTINUOUSLY almost like they breathe, and IMHO failing to realize this seems like a type of denial. Crime happens as much in the suites as it does in the streets. Why is it that so many people are so ready to convict someone at the street level for alegged crimes of only a few dollars, but when it comes down to killing for billions or control of THE WORLD they think it impossible.

I truly believe that the people (and I don't necessarily mean Bush)that were behind 9/11 were the very people who stood the most to gain from it. Now who would that be?

posted 12-28-2003 07:13 AM            

Lt Col Oliver North had just expressed that the military support for the contras was not illegal.

Mr. Neilds: "In fact, you had an opinion drafted by a lawyer...in your files saying exactly the opposite, didn't you?"
Lt Col North: I may have...I don't remember..."
Mr. Neilds: "turn to exhibit 106. It's in book number 5..."
"And the cover sheet is from Vince to Ollie."

"NSC is clearly an entity involved in intelligence activities subject to the section 8066(a) prohibition"

Yhe document referenced was seized from the NSA files of Lt Col North when the FBI served a search warrent.
It was a memorandum from Vince Foster to Ollie North warning 'they' were committing a felony by violating the Boland amendment in the Iran-contra arms/drugs/hostages deals.

Killing Foster broke the link between Clinton and Bush.
This allowed the media to go after Clinton on 'Mena Arkansas coke imports' without the trail leading directly to the 'President and former cia chief' who'd set up that drug dealing.
George HW Bush.

That's why even Starr dropped it like a hot potatoe* during his vendetta against Clinton.

Foster was found with his thumb in the trigger guard of a colt.45 automatic.

It has a grip safety and must be gripped hard to make it fire.
It is easily possible to shoot one'self in the back of the head with a 45 colt auto only if it is held with thumb on trigger.

Try it with an unloaded colt single action auto.

* Testimony of Lt Col Oliver L. North- 1987
page 233

posted 12-28-2003 09:17 AM            

Crack cocaine was said to be an invention that came as a direct result of this CIA/BlackOp drug running. One of the main markets I read about was L.A., where a CONSPIRACY to get the black population hooked on this new dangerous drug proved very successful. Two birds with one 'stone' , so to speak. Power a 'war' on the backs of those used as human 'fuel'.

Americans really need ALL the answers as to what ALL occurred on 9/11. One doesn't have to in ANY way accept the 'official' explantion of events and motives as 100% truth, or risk being called a 'conspiracy theorist'. Clearly it now seems to me more and more info is SLOWLY filtering out to the masses that many more people knew 9/11 was coming and they LET it happen anyway. IMO the 'Bin Laden' conspiracy theory (which is truly just another conspiracy theory) is not even the most LIKELY theory.