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  how to be antiwar and not a moron (Page 1)

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Topic:   how to be antiwar and not a moron

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the professor
KNOW YOUR ROLE


heartland USA
1113 posts, Jan 2003

posted 12-21-2003 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the professor   Visit the professor's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SHERMAN'S MARCH
I Went to the Antiwar Protest Looking for the Dumbest Protester. I Found Him: the Keynote Speaker.
by Josh Feit

A smart-ass shtick for journalists these days is interviewing inarticulate placard-carrying protesters at big demonstrations. P. J. O'Rourke started the trend in the Atlantic Monthly with a piece about last April's anti-globalization Mobilization for Justice march in Washington, D.C. Writers have been pulling "O'Rourkes" at peace demonstrations ever since--with the media casting entire lefty causes as woefully ignorant, based on the testimony of a few doofuses. I could've pulled the same media trick at the February 15 Seattle Center antiwar rally by cornering a couple of imbeciles among the 20,000 protesters. There were plenty to choose from.

A woman named Regan held a sign: "Let the World Court Decide." I told her the world court--the UN, in this instance--had in November passed Resolution 1441, which said military force was an option against Saddam Hussein. Why was Regan, 21, blindly protesting war in Iraq before--according to her own sign's advice--letting the world court decide? "It's not my sign," she said. "I'm not really sure about this."

But this "journalistic" exercise--exposing ill-informed protesters--is intellectually dishonest. After all, there are smart arguments against war. I interviewed folks who capably laid out an antiwar POV--especially when they zoomed in on oil. Additionally, the antiwar crowd doesn't have the monopoly on fatuous arguments. Take the president's weak attempts to link Hussein and al Qaeda, and the pro-war boobs who think Iraqis commandeered the Boeing 767s into the twin towers.

So, here's what I decided to do on Saturday: Rather than pluck out a few morons, I'd listen to the rally's keynote speaker, writer Sherman Alexie--the person organizers themselves put forward as the march's headliner.

Sadly for antiwar folks like me, Alexie's speech was moronic. Voicing the kind of cute dissent--based on clichéd antiwar sound bites--that makes the antiwar movement look ridiculous, Alexie turned out to be the biggest boob there.

Alexie opened by saying that America has lurched toward racism post-9/11. "And then the second plane hit... and we were sure of what it was, but everybody was sure of what Oklahoma was, as well," he said. I am so tired of this supposedly instructive anecdote. Alexie, check out newspapers from April 20, 1995, the day after the Oklahoma City bombing. USA Today and the Washington Post floated two theories: It was the work of homegrown white-supremacist terrorists or radical Islamists. I don't deny that Muslims have had it rough in the U.S. post-9/11 (check my James Ujaama coverage), but George Bush and the press have gone out of their way to condemn anti-Muslim bigotry. And, hello, there was no irrational rush to judgment on al Qaeda. Islamic radicals were behind 9/11; even al-Jazeera flummoxed its audience by corroborating this point last year.

Alexie's second point was that America embraces diversity: "The amazing diversity in this place. Buddhist and Jewish. Christian, Catholic, Protestant. Somali, Native American, Irish, English, this amazing place that we have become.... This is now a country that celebrates our existence." Not only did this directly contradict Alexie's first point (that America is racist), but I couldn't help thinking Iraqi Kurds would be psyched about tolerant America arriving at Hussein's doorstep.

Before moving to his next point, Alexie tossed off a one-liner: "As a Native American, I think it's so ironic that this administration wants to go to war with Iraq, because it keeps breaking treaties with us." I get the joke--but, clever sound bites aside, if Alexie is sensitive about honoring agreements, he should be outraged at the way Iraq flouted UN resolutions for 10 years.

Alexie's next point: America should "ignore borders. We need to embrace all countries and all people." His starry-eyed NPR liberalism only reminded me that Hussein's repression was antithetical to all Alexie claimed to stand for. Alexie simply made me want to ignore Iraq's borders and arrest Hussein. Evidently, the slew of Iraqi men the February 16 New York Times found bribing Iraqi guards and crossing the border into Jordan with tales of repression, rape, torture, and murder also want the U.S. to remove Hussein quickly.

However, Alexie's next starry-eyed moment showed that he wasn't serious about standing up for human rights: "I'm not anti-soldier. I support soldiers... I want them to defend us and never have to pick up a weapon in doing so." How does that work? Should the U.S. have sent troops to Kosovo bearing valentine candies for Milosovic?

Alexie's final point about the coming war was absurd. "All of this is the result of illiteracy," he said. "We have a one-book president... wanting to go to war against a one-book dictator because of one-book terrorists.... We need to send bookmobiles to Baghdad, bookmobiles to the White House. So, everybody pick out your favorite book of poems and send it to George W. Bush. Peace!"

Let's take this statement from the top. I'm assuming Alexie is referring to the Bible and the Koran. Look, no matter how much President Bush panders to religious conservatives, he's not a "one-book president" in the sense that bin Laden is a "one-book terrorist." Bin Laden espouses sharia--governance dictated by the Koran--which, according to bin Laden, means marginalizing women, stoning homosexuals, and killing infidels. While Bush may push pro-life legislation and weird stuff like the "faith-based initiative," likening W. to bin Laden is an exaggeration that makes the peace movement look unreasonable and alarmist. Bush, the leader of perhaps the world's most secular nation, appointed openly gay Scott Evertz to head the White House Office of National AIDS Policy while upping AIDS-prevention funds nearly 10 percent in 2004; has women like Condoleezza Rice, Elaine Chao, and Christie Todd Whitman in top positions; tapped a pro-choice liberal Republican, Lewis Eisenberg, to be finance director of the Republican National Committee; and, in 2001, signed a bill allowing the city of D.C. to support domestic-partnership benefits. Meanwhile, Hamid Karzai (the leader Bush installed in Afghanistan) is a Muslim--hardly an acolyte of a crusading Christian. (And by the way, what "one book" does Alexie have in mind when referencing Hussein? Hussein doesn't rule by sharia; he's a secular neo-Stalinist.)

As for sending books and poems to the White House--gag. But if you must, how about the 1992 issue of Nuseri Kurd (The Kurdish Writer)? It contains poems like "Fear," by Iraqi poet Dilshad Abdullah, whose work scorns Hussein's despotism.

By putting people like Alexie--with his banal rhetoric, contradictory statements, and jokes--front and center, organizers fail to change the minds of pro-war Americans or rope in antiwar voters like myself.

I'm against the war--although not because America has broken treaties with the Indians, or because George Bush is "illiterate." It's because invading Iraq is irrelevant to short-circuiting al Qaeda ["Say 'No' to War on Iraq!", Josh Feit, Oct 17, 2002]. I urge the U.S. to use its clout (and withhold dollars) to demand democratic reform in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, aid reformists in Iran, and find a settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians. Attacking an isolated goon like Hussein (without clear-cut evidence that he's aligned with al Qaeda, or even armed and ready) to set up a puppet government under General Tommy Franks? Give me a break.

Those are the kind of points Alexie should be making--not tripe about bookmobiles and embracing diversity. Antiwar keynote speakers, now backed up by millions of marchers worldwide, have the public's ear. If activists keep offering up folks like Alexie, they're blowing a real opportunity.


josh@thestranger

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-21-2003 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No link?

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the professor
KNOW YOUR ROLE


heartland USA
1113 posts, Jan 2003

posted 12-21-2003 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the professor   Visit the professor's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are you the link enforcer? is that all you can do is follow me around posting no link (in a geeky feminst way). I shouldn't be surprised really for you have nothing intelligent to say nor do you ever argue on your own thoughts, your like a trained chimp acting the way your taught.

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Show-Me Truth
Senior Member


Mid Missouri
70 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-21-2003 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Show-Me Truth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems a bit of a shame, journalists like Feit,

waste there time on tabloid type stories such as "looking for the dumbest protestor".

7000 plus civilians, 1000's of completely innocent women and children, crushed underfoot of the advancing machine, would make a much better story. The stories of eyes blown out, limbs blown off , surgery on screaming badly burned children using no pain killers. Now there would be some good material for a story. Interview the survivors. Make it kinda like the Survivor made for T.V. mini-series. You could have ten completely innocent families and watch them all die needless painfully agonizing deaths, with one family left untouched. That family could be the winner, winning lots of cash, a nice new SUV, and a weeks stay in the Lincoln bedroom. Whadya think? Has it got potential?

SmT

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-21-2003 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No...you can't have that..Dont want to upset our corporate sponsors and boardroom directors with too much REALITY.

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the professor
KNOW YOUR ROLE


heartland USA
1113 posts, Jan 2003

posted 12-21-2003 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the professor   Visit the professor's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah too funny, you can cry about some of the casulties like the limbs blown off and the innocent children that die or lose parents and yet you fail to realize that there are still many victims living into Iraq today who had loved ones raped that were taped and sent to family members and how many children were imprisoned and lets not forget the executions that went on daily. Those people had family members and loved ones that still miss the hell out of them but you don't see their plight. Your thinking is way off and to be blunt, It's great to have a warring president!

[Edited 2 times, lastly by the professor on 12-22-2003]

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-21-2003 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes...the killings we turned a blind eye to when it suited us. CIA Saddam was our boy for years and years..so don't give me that crap.


But in your own words..

"Who cares"

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 12-21-2003]

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Show-Me Truth
Senior Member


Mid Missouri
70 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-21-2003 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Show-Me Truth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cluster-bombing children for oil and Empire is wrong.

Immediately after 9/11 Bush had a once in a lifetime opportunity. He could have united the world in a show of cooperation. There were two paths laid out. He made his choice. As usual it will be The People that suffer, paying the price, for the arrogance and unyeilding ambition of yet another ruler bent on ruling the world. A new American Century. You bet. Whatever it takes to get there. Code Orange. Code red. No bid contracts. National security. Oil security. Stock market props. Crony paybacks. A quart of blood for a quart of oil?

SmT

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-21-2003 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Watch out...You might get labeled a "fanatic".

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Show-Me Truth
Senior Member


Mid Missouri
70 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-22-2003 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Show-Me Truth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had to look that word up, as I honestly wasn't sure of it's exact meaning.

fanatic-one who is exaggeratedly zealous for a belief or cause.

Well, I don't mean to exaggerate, but I feel certain we as Americans were lied to regarding the reasons for war. All of the fake evidence we were given couldn't conceal the need for the empire to try and "secure" desired oil and gas resources.

I personally am not glad we have a war mongering administration. I guess if being a Christian and following the path of the peacemakers is a fanatical one, then I will hope for more "fanatics" to make their voices heard.

"Every life is precious"- G.W.Bush

SmT

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jetblack
New Member


NY NY
35 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-22-2003 12:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jetblack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You people are fanatics! so we war for oil? that idiotic theory has been shot down so many times for you to even mention it is quite redundent for your skewed cause.

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jetblack
New Member


NY NY
35 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-22-2003 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jetblack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mech put words in one's mouth no

"But in your own words..

"Who cares"

no not mech, when he has no arguement because he constantly gets skunked thats his tactic. The old alliance is old news would you like to debate the details on why we backed Iraq rather than Iran? I bet you don't know why? because you don't know crap about history thats why, the only reason you bring it up is to try to make the current administration look bad. Why don't we dive into this topic you give your version of this event in history than I'll correct you on it, ready? I wrote a paper on this in college and seeing it portrayed this way is old and used up.

[Edited 4 times, lastly by jetblack on 12-22-2003]

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whitemajikman
Senior Member


76 posts, Dec 2003

posted 12-22-2003 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whitemajikman   Email whitemajikman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quit trying to draw other people into this mech.........show me truth is no fanatic...........his zeal for single-event fanaticism.....is not evident in any of his posts i have read or more importantly his replies.......your replies are seething with the zeal of fanaticism.......come on lets debate on this......what do you have to lose except your dignity and your perception of yourself.......

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-22-2003 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Im not "drawing anyone"..anywhere. Don't give me your BS.

Why bother? It doesn't matter what I post here it wont change your mind.I know what your REAL intentions are.

I am 150% positive that America has been taken over...thwarted...sold to the highest global elite bidder. It has been for years.Only a return to full constitutional law will save it.If that's fanatical...so be it.

You are simply out to attack ME personally..not debate. That is all you have show thus far.

AGAIN..take your THREATS and PERSONAL SLANDER elsewhere.

Or are you deaf?

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whitemajikman
Senior Member


76 posts, Dec 2003

posted 12-22-2003 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whitemajikman   Email whitemajikman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and how does your hatred tie in to your charge for freedom.....?and your failure to be held accountable......?in any way shape or form through debate and has shown a reluctance to engage in any civil polite debate ......what does that say about you.....and your beliefs......not all your beliefs just the more radical ones .........you know the ones that turned you into a single-event fantic...........for you have lost your ability for rational un-biased.....and more importantly "BALANCED"....thought........im,sorry it has to be me that clues you in... but your as about as unbiased and balanced as a "white judge trying a blackman in mississippi in 1955".........

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swamp gas
Bird Man of Hudson County


Jersey City, NJ
1136 posts, May 2002

posted 12-22-2003 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swamp gas     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blackmagikman,

YOU are the single event... no dual event fanatic...

One day the anti-war, chemtrail activist, calling people who don't believe as you do "fascists", praising Mech for his work at MOD, then the next day, switching sides, and doing the opposite.

You are a phoney and have been outed.

when I say dual event, you are truly a sad individual, carrying War and Peace around in your brain at the same time. Must be tough being inside your head, simce War and Peace cannot exist in the same space/time continuum.

Oh, I have a sneaky suspicion, you won't be around Chemtrail Central much longer. Just a feeling.

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whitemajikman
Senior Member


76 posts, Dec 2003

posted 12-22-2003 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whitemajikman   Email whitemajikman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
see what i mean by the freudian slips......lmao

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whitemajikman
Senior Member


76 posts, Dec 2003

posted 12-22-2003 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whitemajikman   Email whitemajikman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
tell me their is no conspiracy to take this board over for thier own political agenda.........the truth my friends is in their own words......

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


876 posts, Nov 2002

posted 12-22-2003 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure the Professor must have supported President Clinton sending US Military to help overthrow the murderous genocidal dictator Slobodan Milosovic.

Professor,
Please quote some of your posts from back then to back me up.

Just as I am sure the proffessor what posting "Love it or leave it" between 1993 and 2001.
Or left the country during those years and returned only after the appointment of our dear W.

After all, only hippocrites oppose criticicm
of the President and accuse all critics of being traitors, if they didn't say exactly the same words during the Clinton Administration.

The professor is reasonable and intelligent.
And would never have criticized a President
back then and be so hypocritical as to call criticism of the President wrong now.

Unless we all agree that

our founding fathers knew the path to tyranny is paved by an unquestioned government.
so they established a free press to keep democracy alive.
A free society means having the right to hear bad news so,
a real American can handle the truth and welcomes scruitiny of our leaders.


All of us patriots who love our country and support our constitution are on the same side.
We still will argue over the details.


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Dionysus
New Member


Kingdom of Nye
27 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-22-2003 04:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dionysus   Visit Dionysus's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
shatoga seems to be picking a strawman from the professor's leanings...

truth is all bias removed, clintoinian policy did not bring about the fall of momar khadafi!

and it did allow the release upon the world of one meanspirited bin-laden

all being said foreign policy is one of two things appeasement or adhereance to specific supreme nation states guidelines,of which
the bush administration is and has followed a policy of specific guidelines for countries to continue along their current paths...

peace through strength

how bitter politically do you have to be to not see the real truth here ?

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the professor
KNOW YOUR ROLE


heartland USA
1113 posts, Jan 2003

posted 12-22-2003 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the professor   Visit the professor's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my recollection I don't think I ever supported the Bosnia war.

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-22-2003 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shatoga:--"our founding fathers knew the path to tyranny is paved by an unquestioned government.
so they established a free press to keep democracy alive.
A free society means having the right to hear bad news so,
a real American can handle the truth and welcomes scruitiny of our leaders."


"All of us patriots who love our country and support our constitution are on the same side."

Amen to that...Constitution above all else.

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Show-Me Truth
Senior Member


Mid Missouri
70 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-22-2003 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Show-Me Truth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Jet Black, *we* war for oil, and Empire, and dollars,

same as it ever was, nothing has changed under the sun regarding mans nature. And recently his perceived "survival" based on his access to oil, and especially "cheap" oil and the need to keep the stock market pumped up.

It's not JUST oil, but to deny IMO that oil is a Major factor in ALL decisions of importance in the Middle East, is to deny reality. OIL is U.S. and by extension possibly world Life Blood. Read The Project For The New American Century. Look at the National Security review documents that state clearly OIL = National Security. Cheney and Haliburton are not there by accident.Taking fair bids has now fallen victim to no bid contracts possibly worth billions. It really seems partisan to look the other way.

SmT

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Mech
Liberate your mind


Northeast USA
4969 posts, Sep 2002

posted 12-22-2003 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's easier to support pre-concieved beliefs and notions than it is to QUESTION the motives.

Especially when it comes to government corruption.

Partisan preferences get in the way.

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Show-Me Truth
Senior Member


Mid Missouri
70 posts, Nov 2003

posted 12-24-2003 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Show-Me Truth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exactly Mech, too many partisans,

I noticed there was resounding silence from others here, to my post regarding the implementation of the Bush/Cheney "New American Century". It is quite simply a plan for U.S. domination of the world. Nothing less. I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting this.

For those that do however might I suggest reading "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces, and Resources for a New Century". It's there in black and white. I do have to hand it to these Neo-cons, they hide things right there in plain sight. To those that will only spend a little time, in an objective attempt to understand, the Bush Doctrine is clear. When G.W. says things would be easier if he was dictator, one would do best to believe him.

So for me I no longer find the question "is America increasingly becoming an Empire ruling through Force?" to be the relative one,but rather what are to be the effects upon my self and my country and the rest of the world. So many people seem to me to spend countless hours playing the "blame game" attempting to defend or justify their "side" and those they perhaps voted for, even when they realize they may end up 'defending' something they don't personally believe in. Many of my Conservative friends however are becoming increasing abhored at the seemingly insatiable attempt at power grabbing of this administration and my Liberal friends think Bush should have been impeached long ago.

I have said before though, I don't really set around waiting for a political saviour to come and help make my world any better. It's up to all of us, it has to come UP from The People. Every day, everyone we meet, talk to, every radio call in show, every letter to the editor, or to your congressperson, on every subway and bath house wall, on every internet chat board, to being out in the streets with signs, LET FREEDOM RING!

To The Masses:
Turn of FOX SNOOZE! Turn of ABC, NBC, CBS, Corporate News Network. Turn of Clear Channel (cleared of any intellectual content). Find a quiet place away from the noise of the crowd and give yourself over to the silence and the Still small voice of
reason. The Spirit will indeed come to those that seek it. No lie. You have my word on it.

SmT


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