posted 01-24-2004 12:28 AM               

There is an analysis of the logic of this type of 'protection' at:
http://www.diplomatictimes.com/hddf/hddf/new_page_1.htm

posted 01-24-2004 12:58 AM               

(....)

My first vision is that of FREEDOM. I believe that India got its first vision of this in 1857, when we started the war of independence. It is this freedom that we must protect and nurture and build on. If we are not free, no one will respect us.

My second vision for India is DEVELOPMENT. For fifty years we have been a developing nation. It is time we see ourselves as a developed nation. We are among top 5 nations of the world in terms of GDP. We have 10 percent growth rate in most areas. Our poverty levels are falling. Our achievements are being globally recognized today. Yet we lack the self-confidence to see ourselves as a developed nation, self- reliant and self-assured. Isn't this incorrect?

I have a THIRD vision. India must stand up to the world. Because I believe that, unless India stands up to the world, no one will respect us. Only STRENGTH respects strength. We must be strong not only as a military power but also as an economic power. Both must go hand-in-hand. My good fortune was to have worked with three great minds. Dr. Vikram Sarabhai of the Dept. of space, Professor Satish Dhawan, who succeeded him and Dr.Brahm Prakash, father of nuclear material. I was lucky to have worked with all three of them closely and consider this the great opportunity of my life.

I see four milestones in my career:

Twenty years I spent in ISRO. I was given the opportunity to be the project director for India's first satellite launch vehicle, SLV3. The one that launched Rohini. These years played a very important role in my life of Scientist. After my ISRO years, I joined DRDO and got a chance to be the part of India's guided missile program. It was my second bliss when Agni met its mission requirements in 1994. The Dept. of Atomic Energy and DRDO had this tremendous partnership in the recent nuclear tests, on May 11 and 13. This was the third bliss. The joy of participating with my team in these nuclear tests and proving to the world that India can make it, that we are no longer a developing nation but one of them. It made me feel very proud as an Indian. The fact that we have now developed for Agni a re-entry structure, for which we have developed this new material. Avery light material called carbon-carbon. One day an orthopedic surgeon from Nizam Institute of Medical Sciences visited my laboratory. He lifted the material and found it so light! that he took me to his hospital and showed me his patients. There were these little girls and boys with heavy metallic calipers weighing over three Kg. each, dragging their feet around. He said to me: Please remove the pain of my patients. In three weeks, we made these Floor reaction Orthosis 300-gram calipers and took them to the orthopedic center. The children didn't believe their eyes. From dragging around a three kg. load on their legs, they could now move around! Their parents had tears in their eyes. That was my fourth bliss!

Why is the media here so negative?

Why are we in India so embarrassed to recognize our own strengths, our achievements? We are such a great nation. We have so many amazing success stories but we refuse to acknowledge them.

Why?

We are the first in milk production. We are number one in Remote sensing satellites. We are the second largest producer of wheat. We are the second largest producer of rice.

Look at Dr. Sudarshan, he has transferred the tribal village into a self-sustaining, self-driving unit. There are millions of such achievements but our media is only obsessed in the bad news and failures and disasters.

I was in Tel Aviv once and I was reading the Israeli newspaper. It was the day after a lot of attacks and bombardments and deaths had taken place. The Hamas had struck. But the front page of the newspaper had the picture of a Jewish gentleman who in five years had transformed his desert land into an orchid and a granary. It was this inspiring picture that everyone woke up to. The gory details of killings, bombardments, deaths, were inside in the newspaper, buried among other news.

In India we only read about death, sickness, terrorism, crime. Why are we so NEGATIVE?

(...)

India is not an under-developed nation; it is a highly developed nation.

Lets do what India needs from us.

Forward this to each Indian for bringing about a change.

Thank you,

Dr. Abdul Kalaam
PRESIDENT OF INDIA

For the full text see:
http://r2d2.evoknow.com/sardarpatel/archives/000083.html

posted 01-24-2004 01:00 PM            

I wonder if Iran eathquake was another US 'Christmas present'...just like Saddam's capture.

posted 01-24-2004 03:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by m3th0d:
I wonder if Iran eathquake was another US 'Christmas present'...just like Saddam's capture.

---

It was, without a doubt in my mind, meant as a warning for Iran. Did you ever think about the name of the city that was hit - Bam? A bit ironic and symbolic!

posted 01-24-2004 05:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by halva:
Boomer Chick said in relation to HAARP: "If any of it has to do with our national protection against similar technologies advanced by Russia or other countries, I'm thrilled."

There is an analysis of the logic of this type of 'protection' at:
http://www.diplomatictimes.com/hddf/hddf/new_page_1.htm

HAARP causes earthquakes in other countries. It doesn't prevent earthquakes in the USA.

---

Excellent discussion on the ABM treaty, Halva. Your testimonies are certainly cogent and accurate. However, I was not referring to defense of a nuclear attack only, which was totally unclear in my general statement. Sorry. I was referring to similar technologies as HAARP. I could be a victim of disinformation from the government HAARP sites. I must have picked the notion up from somewhere.

Here's an excerpt from an older site, and since I've read so dang much, I don't know what was older and what was newer in my previous reading at this point. Notice what appears in quotes below is government HAARP "information." :
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/HAARP.html

quote:

---

Some of the specific language in the HAARP documents is quoted below and on the next page:

"The HAARP is to ultimately have a HF {High Frequency} heater with an ERP {Effective Radiated Power} well above 1 gigawatt {1,000,000,000 watts} (on the order of 95-100 dBW); in short, the most powerful faci!ity in the world for conducting ionospheric modification research."

"The Soviets, operating at higher powers than the West, now have claimed significant stimulated ionization by electron-impact ionization. The claim is that HF energy, via wave-particle interaction, accelerates ionospheric electrons to energies well in excess of 20 electron volts (eV) so that they will ionize neutral atmospheric particles with which they collide. Given that the Soviet HF facilities are several times more powerful than the Western facilities at comparable midlatitudes, and given that the latter appear to be on a threshold of a new "waveparticle" regime of phenomena, it is believed that the Soviets have crossed that threshold and are exploring a regime of phenomena still unavailable for study or application in the West."

"A key goal of the program {HAARP} is the identification and investigation of those ionospheric processes and phenomena that can be exploited for DoD purposes, such as outlined below.

Geophysical probing to identify and characterize natural ionospheric processes ... so that techniques can be developed to mitigate or control them.

Generation of ionospheric lenses to focus large amounts of HF energy ... thus providing a means for triggering ionospheric processes that potentially could be exploited for DoD purposes.

Electron acceleration for the generation of IR (infrared) and other optical emissions ... that could be used to control radio wave propagation properties.

Generation of geomagnetic-field aligned ionization to control the reflection/scattering properties of radio waves.

Oblique heating to produce effects on radio wave propagation at great distances from the heater, thus broadening the potential military applications of ionospheric enhancement technology.

Generation of ionization layers below 90 km to provide radio wave reflectors ("mirrors") which can be exploited for long range, over-the-horizon, HF/VHF/UHF surveillance purposes ....

Why are the citizens of the United States being asked to pay for such a project? Why do those associated closely with the project reference its use as submarine communications and other apparently innocuous purposes?

---

________________

So, this is an example of what I might have read, and my musings on whether Russia might be involved in similar projects. But from my further reading, I find that actual HAARP projects are located in Russia, too! Which might have occurred after this was written.

Another concern, of course, is the role of possible mind control in conjunction with spraying and HAARP. Here is an excellent resource for mind control and it's history:

http://www.raven1.net/uncom.htm
__________________________
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/haarp/WEATHER.html

quote:

---

Ionospheric research facilities have been in continuous use since the early 50's to investigate fundamental physical principles which govern the earth's ionosphere, so that present and future transmission technologies may take into account the complexities of the ionosphere. At the present time the US operates two ionospheric research sites, one in Puerto Rico, near the Arecibo Observatory, the other (known as HIPAS) in Alaska near Fairbanks. Both of these employ active and passive radio instrumentation similar to that being built at HAARP. Interest in the ionosphere is not limited to the US: a five-country consortium runs the European Incoherent Scatter Radar site (EISCAT), a premier world-class ionospheric research facility located in northern Norway near Tromsø. Facilities also are located at Jicamarca, Peru; near Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod ("SURA") and Apatity, Russia; near Kharkov, Ukraine and in Dushanbe, Tadzhikistan. All of these installations have as their primary purpose the study of the ionosphere, and most employ the capability of stimulating to a varying degree small, localized regions of the ionosphere to discover in a controlled manner what nature produces at random. HAARP also will have such a capability, but what sets HAARP apart from existing facilities is the unusual combination of a research tool which provides electronic beam steering, wide frequency coverage and high effective radiated power collocated with a diverse suite of scientific obser-vational instruments.

---

By Nick Begich:

quote:

---

Warm, Fuzzy HAARP

The U.S. Navy's sooth-ing, feel-good PR Web site devoted to HAARP reassures us that the project is entirely benign.

---

Another Begich excerpt:

quote:

---

HAARP officials deny any link to Eastlund's patents or plans. But several key details suggest otherwise. For starters, APTI, holder of the Eastlund patents, continues to manage the HAARP project. During the summer of 1994, ARCO sold APTI to E-Systems, a defense contractor known for counter-surveillance projects. E-Systems, in turn, is currently owned by Raytheon, one of the world's largest defense contractors and maker of the SCUD-busting Patriot missile. All of which suggests that more than just simple atmospheric science is going on in the HAARP compound.

What's more, one of the APTI / Eastlund patents singles out Alaska as the ideal site for a high frequency ionospheric heater because "magnetic field lines... which extend to desirable altitudes for this invention, intersect the earth in Alaska." APTI also rates Alaska as an ideal location given its close proximity to an ample source of fuel to power the project: the vast reserves of natural gas in the North Slope region--reserves owned by APTI parent company ARCO. Eastlund also contradicts the official military line. He told National Public Radio that a secret military project to develop his work was launched during the late 1980s.

---

Alluding to defense and offense capabilities:

quote:

---

With a transmitter as powerful as HAARP, the military (theoretically at least) would be able to use the ionosphere as a "resonant mirror" to direct an electronic beam back to specific points on the earth. Thus, the energy could be used as a "sort of CAT scan for the planet," with the ability to "see" underground, submits Agent X. More powerful signals might be used to supercharge the electrons in the ionosphere, thereby exploding any missile traveling through that layer of the atmosphere. Even more insidious uses might include a more potent version of weapons used against Iraq during the Gulf War: pulsed electro-magnetic radiation bounced off the ionosphere and aimed at power grids, delicate micro-electronics, missile guidance systems, and perhaps even human "brain chemistry." Agent X also speculates that an overheated upper atmosphere might affect weather patterns, giving the military the deity-like ability to smite its enemies with floods or droughts.

The Air Force insists that it is only "looking at" the ionosphere, not zapping it like dimestore demigods. Still, as an unnamed Air Force factotum put it to Agent X, "The real beauty of HAARP is that nothing you can see on the outside is sensitive. The secret is the beam-steering agility and pulsing of the transmissions. . . . When covert operations occur, the science team, the operating funds and the mission will all be black." Soon as our brain chemistry goes supercritical, we'll let you know. Assuming we know about it, that is. (Nick Begich)

---

quote:

---

Press releases and other information from the military on HAARP continually downplay what it could do. Publicity documents insist that the HAARP project is no different than other ionospheric heaters operating safely throughout the world in places such as Arecibo, Puerto Rico, Tromso, Norway, and the former Soviet Union. However, a 1990 government document indicates that the radio frequency (RF) power zap will drive the ionosphere to unnatural activities. "at the highest HF powers available in the West, the instabilities commonly studied are ap-proaching their maximum RF energy dissipative capability, beyond which the plasma processes will 'runaway' until the next limiting factor is reached." If the military, in cooperation with the University of Alaska Fairbanks, can show that this new ground-based "StarWars" technology is sound, they both win. The military has a relatively-inexpensive defense shield and the University can brag about the most dramatic geophysical manipulation since atmospheric explosions of nuclear bombs. After successful testing, they would have the military megaprojects of the future and huge markets for Alaska's North Slope natural gas.

Looking at the other patents which built on the work of a Texas' physicist named Bernard Eastlund, it becomes clearer how the military intends to use the HAARP transmitter. It also makes governmental denials less believable. The military knows how it intends to use this technology, and has made it clear in their documents.

The military has deliberately misled the public, through sophisticated word games, deceit and outright misinformation.

The military says the HAARP system could:

• Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option by the military through at least 1986)

• Replace the huge Ex-tremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology.

• Be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP, with a more flexible and accurate system.

• Provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military's own communications systems work-ing.

• Provide a wide area earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of EMASS and Cray computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements.

• Be a tool for geo-physical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area.

• Be used to detect in-coming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other technologies obsolete.

The above abilities seem like a good idea to all who believe in sound national defense, and to those concerned about cost-cutting. However, the possible uses which the HAARP records do not explain, and which can only be found in Air Force, Army, Navy and other federal agency records, are alarming.

Moreover, effects from the reckless use of these power levels in our natural shield -- the ionosphere--could be cataclysmic according to some scientists. Two Alaskans put it bluntly. A founder of the NO HAARP movement, Clare Zickuhr, says "The military is going to give the ionosphere a big kick and see what happens." The military failed to tell the public that they do not know what exactly will happen, but a Penn State science article brags about that uncertainty. Macho science? The HAARP project uses the largest energy levels yet played with by what Begich and Manning call "the big boys with

their new toys." HAARP is an experiment in the sky, and experiments are done to find out something not already known.

Independent scientists told Begich and Manning that a HAARP-type "skybuster" with its unforeseen effects could be an act of global vandalism.

---

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/haarp/WEATHER.html

Physicist Daniel Winter, Ph.D., of Waynesville, North Carolina, says, "

HAARP high-frequency emissions can couple with longwave (extremely-low-freq-uency, or ELF) pulses the Earth grid uses to distribute infor-mation as vibrations to synch-ronize dances of life in the biosphere." Dan terms this geomagnetic action 'Earth's information bloodstream,' and says it is likely that coupling of HAARP HF (high-frequency) with natural ELF can cause unplanned, unsuspected side effects.

David Yarrow of Albany, New York, is a re-searcher with a background in electronics. He described possible interactions of HAARP radiation with the ionosphere and Earth's magnetic grid: "HAARP will not burn holes in the ionosphere. That is a dangerous understatement of what HAARP's giant gigawatt beam will do. Earth is spinning relative to thin elec-tric shells of the multilayer membrane of ionosperes that absorb and shield Earth's surface from intense solar radiation, including charged particle storms in solar winds erupting from the sun. Earth's axial spin means that HAARP-- in a burst lasting more than a few minutes--will slice through the ionosphere like a microwave knife. This produces not a hole but a long tear--an incision."

_____________________

So, I'm just trying to figure this whole picture out, just like you! About earthquakes? I wouldn't doubt experimentation in this, too! Not at all!

bc

posted 01-24-2004 05:04 PM            

bc

posted 01-25-2004 12:54 AM            

Yes, I've read a number of pages on this topic but none explain how HAARP supposedly does this. At least none that I've seen.

More than anything, I'm curious about the earthquakes. The only "explanation" I found was one that cited someone as saying "Returning low-frequency waves at high intensity could also affect people's brains, and effects on tectonic movements cannot be ruled out" but there is no explanation of why it can't be ruled out or, more importantly, why it should even be "ruled in."

As for weather control, I'm not entirely convinced but it at least seems feasible--but it seems that if it were feasible it would only allow HAARP to modify weather in the immediate vicinity of HAARP itself (which is debateable since HAARP interacts with the ionosphere and there is no weather in the ionosphere). But even if it works, I haven't seen any explanation of how HAARP could affect weather far away from HAARP or in a targeted, remote manner.

posted 01-25-2004 02:39 AM            

http://www.viewzone.com/haarp00.html
http://www.haarp.net/
http://www.earthpulse.com/haarp/
http://www.geocities.com/theawakeningnews/Chemtrails-Chemtrails_HAARP_Mind.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/8820/earthhaarp.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/haarp.html

posted 01-25-2004 04:52 PM            

Know This: Excellent post! Too bad I never think about listening to that show - sounds like I missed a good one! That's one of my favorite subjects – quantum physics! I was thinking of including it and scalar weaponry in my next set of responses. If you want to read an excellent book on quantum physics - get Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot – it’s one of my ALL TIME favorites. I’ve even bought it a few times and always end up lending it to someone else, and then that book makes its rounds. Quantum Theory by David Bohm is another excellent read. Neither of the books are difficult to understand.

I think the following is something you’ll appreciate. Mech posted this site - http://fusionanomaly.net/TechNode.html - the first thing I did was check out the “holograms” and “quantum mechanics” sections. I have yet to go back and check out the rest – I really should. The following three links can be found within those 2 sections – check this out:

Holographic Universe: http://fusionanomaly.net/holographicuniverse.html

Bohm: http://fusionanomaly.net/davidbohm.html

Anomaly (give it a couple of seconds to load): http://fusionanomaly.net/

Because I LOVE quotes and appreciate Bohm’s mind, here are a couple of his quotes. I put him right UP there with my other favorite thinker – Einstein.

I would say that in my scientific and philosophical work, my main concern has been with understanding the nature of reality in general and of consciousness in particular as a coherent whole, which is never static or complete but which is an unending process of movement and unfoldment...

Then there is the further question of what is the relationship of thinking to reality. As careful attention shows, thought itself is in an actual process of movement. That is to say, one can feel a sense of flow in the stream of consciousness not dissimilar to the sense of flow in the movement of matter in general. May not thought itself thus be a part of reality as a whole? But then, what could it mean for one part of reality to 'know' another, and to what extent would this be possible?