posted 02-11-2004 01:33 PM
Black and white thinking is an "either or" construct-- assuming evil or assuming only good, and cannot be termed lateral thinking. Since I posted an excellent reasoning post day before yesterday when the power went out in my forest -- I'll just say this:Ethics! Technology can be used for wonderful humane purposes, exploration, and edification for the general welfare and improved living quality for all people. But when you combine government entities with private sector R & D, with the information flow back forth, the possibilities for unethical use of various R & D projects increases. This is common sense and also a learned experience from the past in light of covert government/ science experimentation in the past.
Since the hierarchy of government entities involves secrecy from level to level, the bottom level of scientists do not fully know the ultimate purpose for any of their discoveries. Some will be of course used for private sector projects, medical establishment, educational, etc., but considering the governmental connections to DOD and related government agencies, there's no guarantee that ultimately various patents and discoveries will NOT be used for weaponry and other secretive projects. No guarantee at all when the government extends its information and funding tentacles into private sector science research.
Another point to consider, is the informational overcontrol and surveillance opportunities of the government over these private sector multi-area engineering R & D projects with the opposite and equal surveillance power into the government research agnecies simply not existing for the private sector. Of course there will be some interplay and exchange that's equal, but at the higher levels involving ultimate usages, patents, and ownership of said discoveries, once the government is involved it becomes an overarching control situation government over====> private. Ethics, humane usage, profit for whom and why, and secrecy then comes into play. When a scientist's livelihood and a private engineering firm's contracts are government funded, independence and ultimate usage of such technology is intricately connected and controlled by the government and its agendas many of which are kept secret and many of which are not.
The implications are tremendous and a double edged sword, so to speak -- one edge for great benefits for humanity and other for great destruction and possible usages for controlling of populations and benefitting those corporations and government entities who may unethically use the technologies. Therefore, the more the government extends its tentacles the less control the private enterprises have in the captalistic flow of information and sharing world wide and nationally. Just common sense. The interplay and tension, just like the democratic principle of checks and balances in government between private sector and government is necessary to preserve freedom and ethics within the technology arena.
http://www.rense.com/general47/pulled.htm
WTC 7 'Pulled' By Silverstein,
FDNY - Were Towers
'Pulled' Too?
From Judy Singer
Las Vegas
1-18-4
Does this suggest pre-positioned explosives in the Towers?
Hi Jeff - While surfing the net, I came across this information as shown below. It appears that the WTC Center buildings had 'been pulled' which is why the World Trade Center buildings collapsed.
I heard Mr. Silverstein's admissions on my computer audio file. There have been so many conflicting reports. However, I do believe this report substantiates why the WTC buildings finally collapsed, as sad as it is!
PBS Documentary: Silverstein, FDNY Razed WTC 7
By Jeremy Baker
In a stunning and belated development concerning the attacks of 9/11 Larry Silverstein, the controller of the destroyed WTC complex, stated plainly in a PBS documentary that he and the FDNY decided jointly to demolish the Solomon Bros. building, or WTC 7, late in the afternoon of Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001.
This admission appeared in a PBS documentary originally aired in Sept. of 2002 entitled "America Rebuilds". Mr Silverstein's comments came after FEMA and the Society of Civil Engineers conducted an extensive and costly investigation into the curious collapse of WTC 7. The study specifically concluded that the building had collapsed as a result of the inferno within, sparked, apparently, by debris falling from the crumbling North Tower.
In the documentary Silverstein makes the following statement;
"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
[This can be heard in the audio file http://VestigialConscience.com/PullIt.mp3. Thanks to Sir Dave 'tmo' Soule for transfering this from the video to an MP3 file. "America Rebuilds", PBS Home Video, ISBN 0-7806-4006-3, is available from http://shop.pbs.org/products/AREB901/.]
Mr. Silverstein's comments stand in direct contradiction to the findings of the extensive FEMA report. They even negate Kevin Spacey's narrative in the very documentary in which they appear; "WTC 7 fell after burning for 7 hours." If it had been generally known that the building was "pulled" wouldn't Mr. Spacey have phrased it that way?
In the same program a cleanup worker referred to the demolition of WTC 6: "... we're getting ready to pull the building six." There can be little doubt as to how the word "pull" is being used in this context.
[This can be heard in the audio file http://VestigialConscience.com/PullIt2.mp3 taken from the video.]
This shocking contradiction is yet another curious twist in a disturbing series of events surrounding the "collapse" of WTC 7, and the WTC complex in general.
Among these is the fact that, in all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever resulted in a collapse. On 9/11 three such anomalies were alleged to have occurred. Those who argue that the towers were vulnerable in their top-heaviness and verticality cannot then explain the collapse due to fire of WTC 7, a broad based, 47-story steel-framed building.
There is also the fact that most of the structures destroyed by falling debris were directly under the twin towers, and none of them caught fire. WTC 7 was not only a full city block away from Tower 1 but WTC 6 stood directly between the two buildings and certainly absorbed most of the damage.
In addition, WTC 7 suffered a strangely thorough and complete collapse, leaving only a leveled lot where it once stood. Although it was a much smaller structure, WTC 6's 8-story carcass stood for months afterwards, even after being gutted by Tower 1.
There's also disturbing correlations between the collapse of WTC 7 and the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City. Both buildings were constructed using the same bridge beam system that, in WTC 7's case, allegedly contributed to its demise. But more importantly WTC 7, like the Murrah building, housed high-level government offices including the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service. WTC 7 was also the storage facility for millions of files pertaining to active cases involving international drug dealing, organized crime, terrorism and money laundering.
WTC 6, also known as the Customs House building, housed the Departments of Commerce, Agriculture and Labor and yet another Murrah building tenant, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
WTC 7 was also the location of a kind of a doomsday bunker (a $15 million project of Rudy Giuliani's), a command post from which to operate in case of a total infrastructure breakdown. Building 7 had apparently been bullet proofed and reinforced to withstand hurricane force winds and attacks of all kinds, a fact which makes its alleged fatal vulnerability to falling debris all the more puzzling.
Mr. Silverstein's comments imply that he and the FDNY threw together an expert demolition job in the space of a few short hours on the afternoon of 9/11. This revelation is staggering enough considering its blatant contradiction to what has been, all along, the official cause of the "collapse." But the fact that the building was buried under tons of debris and consumed in flames at the time makes his comments all the more baffling.
There's a compelling theory that bombs had been planted inside the twin towers designed to complete the job the hijacked jets had begun. A handful of seasoned professional firefighters and demolition men have commented on how neatly and evenly the towers collapsed. Mr. Silverstein's bewildering statements in "America Rebuilds" give an exponential boost in credence to this claim and, in a more terrifying light, loan credibility to growing suspicions that the attacks of 9/11 may have been an inside job.
http://www.epilot.com/sdspartners/searchpage_bluedesign.asp?affid=bravenet
Comment
From Tom Gordon
Systems Engineer
11-19-4
World Trade Center 'Bombing,'
An Unwitting Participant Asks; "WHY?"
_____________
In 1988, I moved to NYC., seeking architectural photography assignments from various key architects. Before moving there, I asked for help from my prior clients in Denver. One good friend and close ally, Herb Roth, suggested I contact his friends at "Emery-Roth Architects," (No relation) After the usual portfolio review and pricing discussions, Barry Roth, AIA, asked me to cover the "World Trade Center." This assignment, I thought, would be one of the greatest opportunities of my career!
It was widely known that "Ezra Stoller and Associates" and "Norman McGrath" had laboriously photographed the World Trade Center for a period of over one year. They created some of the finest known images of the towers, the most memorable ones are at twilight, with the Statue of Liberty in the foreground. They informed me that Ezra had actually photographed it routinely for something like 6 years.
I was allowed to analyze the firm's existing 'photo files' before I began my coverage. I asked a lot of questions which is how I learned most of the background information I'm about to cover. The 'librarian' at Emery's offices was actually the main corporate secretary, who's demeanor was more like someone you would expect to work under at the Metropolitan Museum, -totally reserved and humorless. This was my first challenge, and frankly a cause for alarm.
Not long after the buildings were built, the WTC owners retained the architect of record, and their photographer, and several principal engineers from the original consulting firm- "to establish the safety of the twin towers." Each of their staff members worked on this project on a 'full-time' contract basis, most of them for a period of about 10 years. By 1989, it was very late in the process, but there were still about 15 current participants involved in all. (I found all these 'facts' to be highly unusual, but perhaps simply beyond my 10+ years experience-level.)
My assignment was to: "apply my Julius Schulman -technique," to photograph both of the towers in their contextual situation. "Not just the buildings, but especially how they 'fit' with the neighborhood.
After a month and a half, I had exhausted my interest in the street vantage-points, so I decided to go up in the towers early one morning, to see which adjacent rooftops could offer the most suitable additional views. It was still too cold to shoot those views. This was between May 9th and May 13, 1989.
Carrying just my light-weight 35mm gear, I was singled-out from the regular building patrons by the lobby guards, which totally surprised me. I explained the nature of my business with a moderate degree of assurance, but was shocked when they reacted as though I had been expected, very matter-of-factly!. One of them phoned upstairs, while another insisted he was sending a guard with me, "to insure that I would arrive at the engineering office in time for our meeting." The suite was labeled: Skilling & Jackson, P.C.. -whom I had knowledge of, but no prior relations with.
Had this been the leasing office, I would have understood the mix-up perfectly. Clearly, this was NOT a situation that could pertain to me in any way. I was not aware that Roth had an office in the building at all, but, like a true 'rookie,' I was feeling keen to discuss my abilities with their 'big guns,' since any contact with such people here could have lead me to major future assignments!
When we arrived at the door to this suite, I was 'very shocked' to see the actual sign on their 'main office door.' The door and jamb itself were of completly service-grade materials, like an ordinary 'back door' at any other suite. The sign was brand new and simply said: Skilling Associates, P.C.. (This was a small engraved laminated sign from an ordinary office supply store.) I thought to myself: Humm, these people have been here over 10 years?
"Everyone sit down and be quiet." "Who's this?," the orator said loudly, starring at me. I said: "I 'm the official photographer from Roth."
{...like who are you and what's it to you buddy, haven't you heard of me? }
Unflinching, somber and businesslike, he said without drawing a breath:
Then, you are to be included, who sent you here?
I said; "Barry Roth- I just got a message from his secretary."
(Which was almost completely true, but she hadn't called about this, to my knowledge! )
He nodded and addressed the full group, then reading from a 4x5 file-card, acknowledged some absentee members and confirmed their knowledge and prior 'agreements of compliance.' He said to the few of us in this special group:
"Listen carefully, nobody gets out of this!"
"Each of you were called here to sign an affidavit of non-disclosure. None of the information from our project can find it's way into the public-eye. Absolutely nothing that we have learned from this project can be revealed to the public because it is potentially damaging to our client. Some of you have enjoyed 10 years of service on this project for our client. Each of the team leaders have recently received raises and additional benefits. { someone } -has already received a new assignment and he will be getting a healthy raise at his new location, {undisclosed}."
"I know this transition will take you by surprise, but there was no other way to handle it. You are all terminated from this project effective immediately! This means you need to clear your desks and surrender all of your files by the end of the day.
I will assist you in getting these papers into the archive cabinets so we can give them to the owners for safekeeping."
"After you have signed these forms, we will have a short recess. You may go to the Cafe, or to 'Windows' for lunch, but don't leave the buildings! I want you all to know that I am sad to have to break this news. Your work will not go unnoticed, each of you has provided an invaluable service and we are all grateful. Do not think that this action shows any reflection on the exceptional quality of your individual work!"
This was like a military operation, yet no one in the room knew I didn't work for their firm!
So, we went to "lunch," at around 10:15am. where I was able to visit with 3, or 4 of the lesser engineers, without oversight from their 'head honchos.' I played it really cool considering my total ignorance. Each of them were furious. I said things like -"Shame we have to dis-band, I was looking forward to being here for at least a few months." "What do you suppose we've done wrong?" ...Each in turn revealed:
"The fact is, we all know that the buildings can't stand safely for over 40 to 60 years. It's not the sub-soil, that's granite. They must have received the completed demolition report, which we all knew to expect. It was supposed to be finished months ago. Clearly it looks bad. Well, I'm sure we all know the real implication- that the owners can't get their money back. That's what we all learned today. -Thanks _X_, f*** you!"
I asked: -"Why, what do you mean?"
It will cost $____ Billion to erect the two scaffolds to surround both buildings, that's the only known way to take these baby's down. We'll literally have to re-build them, then un-build them, twice! Now it's obvious, bottom-line is that the developer will have to sell them soon, or take a serious bath. (I forget the actual figure)
-"Why are they worried now? They still seem really stable architecturally."
They are much too big. It's a piece-by-piece problem. They simply can't be imploded, we know of no other way. Why do you think they hired me for 10 years to find other solutions? I'm not a structural specialist, just an architect!
- "I thought Barry said you guys were about to find a solution."
(I could see that was the wrong thing to say.) A slight look of concern spread over their faces, until I said-"What's a few more Flying Buttresses going to cost?" It was a lame jab, but they bought it and everyone relaxed as I pretended to be contemplating my next job interview.
I learned that 'none of them were allowed to be holding other jobs,' as long as they held these 'titles,' a contract-stipulation had occurred at least 4 years prior. They all griped about the "pathetic" lunch; "This is horrible, I can't eat here!" No one was very relaxed. The more I learned, the more scared I was as I listened for more fascinating inside news.
-Finally, pushing my luck, I prodded again: "So tell me about the electrolytic issues."
Everyone went quiet, but realised they were in deep. They began a patent narritive which was clearly not about to go anywhere, since I think they knew that I knew as much as each of them about the composition and arrangements of these metals. I had effectively blown my cover.
Suddenly, just short of our hour, a man came to escort us back to their desks which had been mostly riffled through, or completely boxed and removed.
"Again, son, tell me who you are?" -One of the senior associates asked. "You guys walk ahead, he said, using firm body-lauguage to physically indicate that he would be in a position to restrain me at any time.
"I'm T.S. Gordon the official photographer. They were tired of paying Stoller." "Who's Stoller, I only know of McGrath?" "Are you saying you are not with Mr. McGrath's firm?"
I said; "Ezra Stoller, the world's greatest at shooting tall buildings. Haven't you seen all the great shots up at Emery Roth? McGrath has shot what, 6 or 8 great photos in 4 years!," (-I sarcastically mused, until I began to feel that he might arrest me. By the way, Norman's shot's were great too, but I felt I had to assert a strong opinion.)
"You go by; Tom, Thomas, or T.S.?" -He asked, looking again at my drivers license.
"TS- I was called in to cover the site, not just the buildings. I didn't even need to come in here again for my assignment!" - I said, carefully back-stepping, like I could find my way to the elevator. He grabbed my arm and we proceeded rapidly through the corridors behind the others. "No, you were called in because everyone had to sign off on their part in this entire assignment. You say you work for Barry__ who?"
I responded with the proper name and added, "He's the one that cuts my checks and I give him ALL the film." (An exaggeration, but I knew Barry was a former project manager and he would be at lunch if they tried to call.)
"You are not to tell anyone about your employment here, ever!" -he said.
"Wait here by the window, all of you with outside affiliations." A couple of guys took their seats by the North window, but I was nervous and I stood with my back to them as I starred down on the un-finished looking iron-work of building #7, which had just been 'topped-out' with a ceremony the day before.
"What are you studying?" someone asked. "I can't believe that building is so tall and skinny," and I really couldn't. ( I had toured #7, so I was quite curious about this viewing angle.) He stood up, evidently really angry, and said quite unpleasantly; "Yeah good old #7, the building that never should have been built!"
The room went silent. His tone was immediately received as a threat by the boss. He separated the three of us and called my contact at Emery-Roth who then acknowledged that I was hired to shoot the building. Neither discussed any details, so I was off the hook in a way. He dismissed me and said I was not to talk to any of the other participants on the way out, not ever again. An armed guard escorted me down to the street.
Within a few days I called Ezra Stoller, in White Plains, who, speaking about WTC, innocently revealed that he; "Wasn't allowed to shoot any more pictures of it." That was a very funny thing to hear him say. No one ever "doesn't allow" a photographer to get a better shot. I didn't say what had happened to me, only that it was very exciting for me to get to follow in his shoes. I thanked him for the friendly phone visit and promised to show him the prints if I got any really great shots. He was very polite and understood my admiration.
_____________
Based on a true life experience I had at the World Trade Center, I offer this document now, to those who may be searching for " key potential motives" behind the actions that led to the 9/11 attacks. I do not intend to imply that any of the parties that I will mention here were directly involved in the coordinated effort to destroy the building.
However, it is clearer to me, over time, that this information would have provided a pre-eminent, and utterly untraceable 'blue-print' to the group that finally engineered the 9/11 attack.
This document was originally released in 2003, and was ammended for accuracy, on: 1/18/2004.
This information is entirely true and this is its first public release. My explanation does not intend to add substantially in any way to the factual information that is contained in the actual documentation that I have described.-TSG
Supporting Facts, Assumptions and Curious Questions:
I would speculate that in 1989 through 1993, as the downtown real estate market was falling, there were perhaps reasons to suspect that the WTC owners might have contemplated the first bombing. After Battery Park attracted their biggest tenants, the property quickly lost it's viability. (At the time, Geoff Parker reported that a friend of his was given a whole floor in the South tower to use as a drumming studio, for free!) By 1996, the internet had decentralized the financial industry, further diminishing the lease/return opportunities of this property. ( I don't know the actual math, maybe it was going up again.)
The building cost about $1.5B to build and was worth about $4. to 5.B at its peak. But, it would have cost about $20B to un-build it in 2010 dollars, or as it neared its 1/2 'safe' life. Obviously it HAD to be imploded and there was never going to be a 'break-even' point for the owners.
The first attempted attack was evidently planned to kill all of us, or at least scatter the group's paperwork. Building #7 was actually a protective scaffold, designed to catch the debris as the North building fell. Why did they plan it so only this building would fall, particularly northward? Would they receive the insurance then appeal for a government bail-out to de-construct the main tower, sometime later?
Minoru Yamasaki was working for the Saudi's when he took on this project. After its completion in 1973, he returned to Saudi Arabia to consult on other projects. Eventually, in 1986, he did the Saudi Financial Center. Noteworthy, if I remember, because of its triangular super-rigid looking tower, also attributed to S.O.M. In interviews he appears to be a gracious and spiritually honest man. We certainly felt his pain when he was interviewed on TV.
Minoru befriended Richard Roth Sr., while working for Brown & Root in Chicago. Roth was noted for his contribution on the "Columbia Exposition" Project. They shared many arts & crafts stylistic attitudes. Richard Roth Jr. was in charge of his dad's firm when he retired. He is friends with lots of conservatives. (Carnegie Mellon group, like his dad.) He is friends with Saul Steinberg, Stephen Roth, Jeffrey Levine, lots of famous Jewish folks with dubious Israeli connections.
When the building was sold to Silversteen, Stephen Roth, (with Vernado Realty) worked to take the bid as high as possible, offering $750,M more than the next lower bidder. Did he even have the money? Two months before the official auction, he withdrew the ridiculous bid. Could this have been a mistake on his part?
Isn't this the same Stephen Roth who runs the "Anti-defamation League" in Israel. They track all persons who threaten the sovereignty of Israel. Interestingly enough it was established in 1991! Suddenly, after that, there were lots of reported 'neo-nazi' groups springing up in Germany and the UK. His group gave rise to the importance of stopping these 'Right- wing terrorists' at all costs, and he may serve as the eyes and ears for the CIA, or Massoud. Either way, he's got to be an insider with Sharon.
Tom-Scott Gordon
Architectural Photographer/currently A/V Systems Integrator
penmanchip@hotmail.com
Comment
From Tom-Scott Gordon
1-19-4
Hi Jeff -
You may remember the transcript that I sent you about a pre-existing 'demolition plan' for the Twin Trade Towers. I have been actively pursuing the development of that set of documents into a 'corroborated' story. I have received help from Michael @ From the Wilderness and Jeff King, another important 9-11 cover-up researcher. I think you should have one of them on your program immediately!
I would like for you to 'add this comment' to the end of your story, something that I believe to be just as important as Mr. Silverstein's 'smoking gun,' -itself. This appears in the context of my tedious narrative, and in some ways 'certifies,' these events. I will highlight the quote now, but my full story will not be ready to send to the commission for days.
It's more than a smoking gun. In my 25+ years exposure to all sorts of architects, I have never heard such a damaging comment as the one I'm about to tell you. Not to the design process, the people, nor the conflicts involved in achieving our profession's crowning achievements. It was like seeing a mother with her newborn child, as she quietly ends it's precious life!
"There I was, fantastically excited to be looking down on the steel framing, as Building #7 was finally 'topped out.' To my right, stood one of the project architects, who said; (then turned, and left the room without looking any of us in the eye): "Building seven. -The building that never should have been built."
-----------------------------
bc
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