posted 06-26-2004 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by billder:
I too have gotten info concerning spread of body fluids on pavement versus nuclear flash...do not know...do know there are depleted uranium weapons in use, or at least my sources know, and they seem to have good info on it...

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posted 06-26-2004 04:30 PM            

What 'Support Our Troops' Really Means

By Amy Worthington

posted 06-26-2004 07:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fortis:
The question, prompted by the first post, is "Do these photos provide any evidence that nuclear weapons have been used in Iraq by the US?" Based on my viewing of the photos, my answer is "No".

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Then you can just keep on moving right along!

posted 06-26-2004 07:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fortis:

There is a lot of difference between a depleted uranium shell and a nuclear weapon.

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Same result though either way huh knucklehead?

posted 06-26-2004 07:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KNOW-THIS:

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Originally posted by fortis:

There is a lot of difference between a depleted uranium shell and a nuclear weapon.
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What a stupid argument. That's like saying, "there's a difference between getting your throat sliced and being lynched"

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posted 06-26-2004 08:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by billder:
No they are not fission weapons, although the implication is this I suppose: if they use DU, what else?

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posted 06-26-2004 08:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KNOW-THIS:
Oh I see, so it's all about the technique and method used to kill & maim people that's really important? So many varieties of explosions to play with and yet so few bodies to obliterate huh Fortis? Maybe you should donate your body for testing? I understand that there are technical & logistical differences, but death and suffering are pretty borderline.

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quote:

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The reason this occurs is because of the type of weapon this is, Low Level or Low Yield Nuclear weapon they say they want to start testing now.

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DU is pyrophoric, i.e. it spontaneously ignites in air.
( http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/glossary/pyrophoric_materials.html )

Have you seen the effects due to a phosphorous bomb? (Ask the people of Dresden about that one. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary.htm )

It is also pyrophoric. I'm guessing that you wouldn't describe it as a "Low yield nuclear weapon"?

posted 06-26-2004 08:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KNOW-THIS:
I'm not interested in what's generally accepted. I'm not even interested in you. I'm just trying to understand what form of uranium you'll allow me to shove down.......nevermind.

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posted 06-26-2004 08:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by billder:
The EMP produced by the Compton electrons typically lasts for about 1 microsecond, and this signal is called HEMP. In addition to the prompt EMP, scattered gammas and inelastic gammas produced by weapon neutrons produce an “intermediate time” signal from about 1 microsecond to 1 second. The energetic debris entering the ionosphere produces ionization and heating of the E-region. In turn, this causes the geomagnetic field to “heave,” producing a “late-time” magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) EMP generally called a heave signal. ....http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm

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Weapons are getting so high tech these days it’s damn scary! So, we have the EMP (electromagnetic pulse) weapons and HPM (high power microwave) weapons. Can you please explain the similarities and/or differences in a way I can understand?! I don't get it. I would not have lumped them into the same category as this piece does below.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/hpm.htm

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) and High Powered Microwave (HMP) Weapons offer a significant capability against electronic equipment susceptible to damage by transient power surges. This weapon generates a very short, intense energy pulse producing a transient surge of thousands of volts that kills semiconductor devices. The conventional EMP and HMP weapons can disable non-shielded electronic devices including practically any modern electronic device within the effective range of the weapon.

There was a new device we talked about a few months ago, a sound weapon. You probably “heard” about it already. Would this be considered an HMP weapon or something else?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/080304secretscream.html

The device is a powerful megaphone the size of a satellite dish that can deliver recorded warnings in Arabic and, on command, emit a piercing tone so excruciating to humans, its boosters say, that it causes crowds to disperse, clears buildings and repels intruders.

The new megaphone being deployed to Iraq can operate at 145 decibels at 300 yards, according to American Technology, well above the normal threshold for pain.

Since I know this was not posted here before, I’ll post the complete article. They’re talking about using an energy beam weapon (is this HMP?!?).

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/9499345p-10423294c.html

Invisible beam tops list of nonlethal weapons
By Greg Gordon -- Bee Washington Bureau
Published 2:15 am PDT Tuesday, June 1, 2004

WASHINGTON - Test subjects can't see the invisible beam from the Pentagon's new, Star Trek-like weapon, but no one has withstood the pain it produces for more than three seconds.

People who volunteered to stand in front of the directed energy beam say they felt as if they were on fire. When they stepped aside, the pain disappeared instantly.

The long-range column of millimeter-wave energy is known as the "Active Denial System" for its ability to prevent an aggressor from advancing. Senior military officials, who plan to deliver the device for troop evaluation this fall, say years of testing has produced no sign it will lead to health effects beyond perhaps causing skin to temporarily redden.

It is among the most potent of a new generation of futuristic, "less-than-lethal" weapons being developed by the Defense Department - tools that could dramatically alter the way police control riots and soldiers fight wars.

Other nonlethal devices undergoing tests include "superlubricants" that could make a road or runway too slippery for car or airplane tires to gain traction; directed sound waves to drive people away from an area; and nets able to stop cars.

Marine Col. David Karcher, who heads the Pentagon's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate, says the energy beam is aimed at helping troops and police in confusing situations by offering options "between bullets and a bullhorn."

Marine Capt. Dan McSweeney, a spokesman for the Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate, pointed to "instances in Iraq where crowd situations have unfortunately ended in violence" and death.

Karcher and other military officials are trying to alleviate fears that the device might be misused to harm civilians or converted into a torture machine that leaves no marks.

In an attempt to anticipate how the world would greet the new weapon, the Air Force this month asked social science graduate students at the University of Minnesota and other colleges for help.

Researchers were offered $12,000 to spend the summer reviewing literature and assessing how Americans and other cultures might react to its use.

In the solicitation, Maj. Jonathan Drummond of the Air Force's Directed Energy Bioeffects Division noted that the Active Denial System could provide U.S. forces "with a nonlethal capability in military operations other than war." Among possible uses, he listed peacekeeping, humanitarian operations and crowd control.

Introduction of such a device in either noncombat or wartime situations could raise thorny questions: Would it be acceptable to inflict so much pain on unruly protesters? How would such a weapon be viewed if used on crowds in Third World countries? Would it violate international humanitarian principles if used in battle? Might it be used secretly during interrogations to torture suspected terrorists into cooperating?

Karcher said the Active Denial System "is absolutely not designed or intended or built" to be a torture device.

"To use this as any sort of torture device would be in direct violation of" the Pentagon's definition of nonlethal weapons, he said. "Nor, as professionals, would any of us sign up for it."

But in an era of secret interrogations of al-Qaida suspects and revelations of U.S. abuse of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, Executive Director Doug Johnson of the Minneapolis-based Center for Torture Victims is skeptical.

"It seems fundamentally a weapon that's designed to create a great deal of pain and fear," Johnson said. "The concern I would have is ... once this kind of technology is available and there's a perception that it's safe and nonlethal, it seems like a natural device to be used in interrogations.

"Is it torture if it only creates a sensation of pain, but leaves no marks and no long-term damage? I would say yes. Torture is primarily a psychological device, and finding different ways to use the body against the mind has been the struggle of torture technologies for thousands of years."

He said "human history would demonstrate" that once a potential torture technology is available, it usually is put into action.

Karcher and other military officials stressed that the device has received interim approvals from international treaty conventions, has twice passed Pentagon legal reviews and will be subject to clear rules of engagement.

Eleven years in the making at a cost of more than $50 million, the Active Denial System is still years from deployment. It weighs about 4 tons and consists largely of a big dish and antenna that are mounted on a Humvee multipurpose vehicle.

But researchers are hoping to miniaturize it, Karcher said. Air Force officials want to work with the prime contractor, the Raytheon Corp., to design a version that could be mounted on a military transport plane so its beam could cut a broader swath on a battlefield.

Once an operator has aimed the antenna using a scope, the press of a button sends out a column of millimeter-wave, electromagnetic energy at the speed of light. Pentagon officials say that the weapon's exact reach and its column size are classified, but that it can extend beyond the 550-meter effective range of bullets. Its intensity is the same at any distance.

Susan Levine, the Pentagon's project manager for the energy beam, said years of tests on humans and animals enabled researchers to establish a margin of safety. After several seconds, the device automatically shuts off to avoid burning its target, she said.

When the beam hits an individual, it penetrates 1/64th of an inch beneath the skin and heats water molecules to 130 degrees in less than a second.

"It tricks the pain sensors into thinking they're on fire," said Rich Garcia, a spokesman for the Air Force Research Laboratory at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, N.M.

Garcia knows firsthand. He was among hundreds of test volunteers, standing in a doorway with his back facing the device.

"They did a full body back shot," he said. "It hit in the small of my back first. For the first millisecond, it just felt like the skin was warming up. Then it got warmer and warmer and you felt like it was on fire."

He said he lunged out of the doorway.

"As soon as you're away from that beam your skin returns to normal and there is no pain," Garcia said. "I thought to myself, 'Why you wimp. You know it's not causing any damage. You'll be able to override it.' Each of the next three times, I was on there a little bit longer.

"The fourth one was the longest. It was about two seconds. It felt like my hair was on fire."

posted 06-26-2004 08:32 PM            

Don't worry about it. Just don't come near me.

posted 06-27-2004 08:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KNOW-THIS:
Besides, what's your point? Choosing between instant annihilation & long term suffering?

[Edited 2 times, lastly by KNOW-THIS on 06-26-2004]

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The whole point of this thread is that there is a claim that the US has been using low yield nuclear weapons in Iraq.

posted 06-27-2004 08:25 AM            

and lets not forget this:

From: http://www.maebrussell.com/Transcriptions/Transcriptions.html

In the newspaper (November 1971-ed.), Sunday, was an article called, "An Expert's Warning: Beware of the Experts." It's by a man who worked in the Pentagon, in the CIA, in the State Department, in Research Analysis Corporation. He worked on arms control on disarmaments study. He worked at Cal Tech, the University of California, for years for our government. His name is Sydney Slomich, and this is what he tells you:

"Take your society, your laws, integrity and your country back from the experts. I have been an expert and I tell you the experts have gone wild. And they have grown like cancer. And nothing is more expert than cancer and nothing is a better example of power without purpose. And cancer is ignorant, but it works and it grows. I have left all of the government experts behind..."

"One of the leading social scientists has said that the chief accomplishment of this age is to change so many political problems into technical ones. We see a Vietnam as Auschwitz; the result of technical solutions to political problems. I spent a number of years as an officer in the CIA," he said. And he gives his background in the various jobs.

"For fifteen, sixteen years I worked exclusively within the established foreign policy and the government. And only in the late sixties did I come to understand that the government and the business, and what is currently called the Establishment, were inert. And they were committed to the shape of things as they have been to inaugurate human policies that for change the people must take the government back to themselves. Only when people are awaken from the grasping power from these mindless mega institutions are you going to effect changes."

"This government is the greatest polluter on the earth...is an agent of potentially total repression, and it is the greatest threat to continued human life that the world has ever faced. I do not say these things lightly,"

"The entire system of expertise and secrecy is designed to prevent people in this country from determining their own destinies, and it's basically fake. Over the last twenty years I've had continuous top secret clearances from: the United States Army, State Department, CIA, Defense. I never learned one thing of value in this secret system. Everything valuable I have learned with known and perceived in writing, from an open and scholarly unclassified source, or from newspapers, journals, or from my own observation. There is no silent majority. Man is a speaking animal. There is only a silenced majority, repressed, plant down, frightened. And you have been silenced."

posted 06-27-2004 01:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by billder:
methinx you are making the claim about low yield nukes 4t...

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quote:

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So, Low Yield Nukes are in play, the pictures depict carbonized bodies, a term coined by the Japanese to describe the carnage our High Yield Nukes left in Japan.

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posted 06-27-2004 07:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by billder:
So you do follow the linx afterall!

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quote:

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you know as well as I do these jackasses do not build things just to keep them stored in warehouses...

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quote:

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overall I will call this thread a success as it definitely ran awhile

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quote:

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and got some people looking at the fact that weaponry in the gulf war (s) is PROBABLY (probably fortis!) not exactly what we have been told....

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quote:

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and also, I think the photog of those, being right there, needs some credit...

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quote:

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a lot of times two separate sets of circumstances cause the same indications, symptoms, characterisitics, what-have-you...

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quote:

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he was there...

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quote:

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and low yield nukes are definitely not science fiction, supposedly

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quote:

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(Supposedly Fortis!) Israel has them in profusion, and of course Russia, and deploy them when needed,

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quote:

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along with MANY other things we are not told about...skeptics r us, eh fortis?

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posted 06-27-2004 08:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fortis:
We'd just like a bit more evidence.

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Not we'd like more evidence. You mean YOU'D like more evidence!

posted 06-27-2004 08:43 PM            

When you said – I think this thread got way out of hand, and a lot of it has to do with people wanting other people to supply them with pat answers to intricate issues and thats just not going to happen.

posted 07-02-2004 09:19 PM            

Yeah right, Letxa hasn’t visited here in quite some time! IF, as he alleges, he hasn’t been here in a while (cough, cough), the FIRST thing he does is start spewing venom. What a guy!

And speaking of suppressed information you infrequent visiting schmuck, I work in Intellectual Property. Know what that means? It means I WORK WITH INVENTORS. LOLOL!!! As a matter of fact, I’ve done so for close to a decade! What’s YOUR work history in the industry? LOLOL!!!